Sound issues and various DUAL-S decoder

Question

Here is the letter I just sent to C+ regarding the sound issues encountered with the DUAL-S decoder.
I have also experienced white screens (with a fine vertical line) that were corrected by resetting the terminal.

Gentlemen,

I have just purchased an HD television and naturally opted for an extension of my C+/Canalsat subscription in HD, taking advantage of the three-month free offer.

I am noticing sound issues with no sound and/or sound levels on HD channels (190 ....195), 8 and 9; as well as voice delay issues on live broadcasts on HD channels (interviews with football players and commentators on TF1 and the Grand Journal show on C+).
After hours of manipulation in various settings menus, I have established a correction process to restore an adequate sound level by adjusting the sound parameters. These actions are tedious and must be repeated each time a channel is changed.

I brought this to the attention of my C+ contact and the seller of my television, who initially exchanged the terminal with no improvement, then tested it in-store on another terminal where we reproduced and confirmed the same anomalies.

My configuration: Sony 46W4000 television, Visiosat HD antenna, and Dual-S decoder. The decoder is connected to the television via the HDMI port with the cable provided in the package. There are no other devices connected. The available technical updates have been completed.

The anomalies:
1- Total absence of sound on HD channels and 9 (hi-tech), the other channels work correctly.
This incident occurs when the decoder is turned on or when selecting unassigned channels (I have recorded channels 188 and 194).
2- Change in sound level:
I have noted 3 sound levels: low, medium, and optimal, of course without modifying the sound volumes on the decoder or the television.
This problem systematically occurs when changing channels:
- from one HD channel to another HD channel, the volume drops from optimal to medium on the selected channel and also back to the original channel when returning.
- from an HD channel to a non-HD channel and then back to the HD channel, the sound level of the last channel becomes low.
- when changing the language using the functions activated by the "Pilot" button, the channel switches to medium level.

The workaround I have empirically established that allows me to have correct sound consists of performing the following manipulations:

1- Total absence of sound:
- Select channel 188, wait about ten seconds for the channel to lock properly.
- Remote control button "menu", select "settings" in the settings mosaic
select "sound" on Dolby Digital activation on HDMI, change the status (if "yes" switch to "no", if "no" switch to "yes").
- Confirm and exit the settings mosaic.
- Switch to an HD channel (e.g., 190)
Generally, the sound is present but weak and it is necessary to proceed to the next step to raise it to a correct level.

2- Weak or medium sound:
- Button "menu" select "settings" in the settings mosaic
select "sound" on Dolby Digital activation on HDMI, change the status (if "yes" switch to "no", if "no" switch to "yes").
- Confirm and exit the settings mosaic.
The sound will evolve from one level thus from weak to medium.
Therefore, this last action must be repeated to go from medium to optimal.

For the voice delay issues, are there any particular actions to take?

I understand that this product is new and may have some defects related to HD technology, but it is sold on the market for a price and it should have acceptable quality, which is currently not the case. My TV dealer has mentioned complaints from his customers.
Are any fixes expected and when will they be available?

Configuration: Windows XP Firefox 3.0

stewartia · Accepted Answer

If you are really interested in HD, if your integrated TV tuner is HD, wait until the end of October to receive TF1, France 2, France 5, M6, Arte and maybe Canal in clear, plus the others gradually in 2009. In reality, HD is great for team sports like soccer, handball, etc. The image has a better "sharpness". For satellite, if you really want to take a Canal+ Canalsat HD subscription, call customer service at 3910, if you are already a subscriber, have your customer number ready, you can request over the phone to receive the Dual-S terminal and your card starting with 18 (HD) Mediaguard encryption, it will be delivered to your home like I did (I had it delivered by Chronopost). Take the number of the terminal and the decoder, activation is done by phone, the SD subscription has a card starting with 39 (Viaccess). Currently, the only channel broadcasting for free in HD is Arte in 720p which can be upscaled to 1080i, the image is good. The rest, for HD channels, the programs being broadcast are mostly films and TV series as well as the Champions League, for Canalsat, National Geo in HD is very nice. By the way, the Canal distributors who haven't yet given up are liars. When I changed my first Dual-S (I went through 4 in total), I was told the same thing, everything is fine (it was a Tuesday and they had just received some). I take the equipment, plug it in, it worked for a few hours. At first, I had sound losses fixed by the previously mentioned manipulation, then the sound was too low, on my Sony I listen depending on the source TNT: level of 8 to 12 and on satellite from 10 to 15 in SD and around 25 for HD but there I went up to 60 and could barely hear anything, I wanted to enter the menu, the device (new so brand new batteries) didn’t respond to the commands anymore. I tried several operations: nothing; then after about 40 seconds, all the previously sent commands were applied one after the other. Restarting the Dual-S: it no longer reads the card. In the end, I go back to the distributor (it's Friday) to test my terminal on a Philips plasma: no sound but there were cracks and fuzz. He rummages through several boxes of Dual-S at the back of his shop from his Tuesday stock, there’s only one left that is not part of the "returns", while I wait, someone called to ask for the procedure to replace their "Canal" equipment. For the curious, Netgem will release an HD TNT receiver at the end of the year with a double tuner and built-in hard drive, updated via RJ45 cable or Wifi. They will thus differentiate themselves from Neuf SFR and offer VOD via the internet through a standard ethernet port and not through your "box" TV.

jbcorens · Answer

I have exactly the same problem.

In fact, the loss of sound occurs when switching to Dolby Digital activation over HDMI and then activating a non-HD channel (whichever it may be). When you return to an HD channel, the sound is gone and you have to perform the indicated workaround.

I think it’s a software issue that CANAL + should correct (provided we tell them, which is why I appreciate your letter). It’s still completely abnormal that they don't realize it themselves.

As for the audio delays, I’ve also noticed that, but I haven’t found a specific solution except perhaps turning the decoder off and then back on (to see???).

stewartia · Answer

It is no longer necessary to use the Dual-S; I have changed it 4 times and others from 6 to 10 times. The "planter" is low-end equipment that does not support Dolby Digital; you need to stay in stereo because when switching from TF1 HD to Canal+ HD, there is no sound. You have to go back into the menu, switch the sound from Dolby to stereo, and go back through a "normal" channel like France 3 or 5. I had the same issues mentioned earlier, plus the device that refuses to read the card, no response to commands, etc. Fortunately, I have a Topfield 7710 HSCI Satellite Terminal with a PCMCIA card reader module Powercam Pro Version HD V2.0 (Update: HotBird); once your rights are activated, it works the first time. After a "forced" return of the Dual-S (I kept the "18" card) and several threats to Canal+ because the mandatory rental of the Canal terminal to receive their programs is contrary to consumer law Art.122-1. In short, if you legally acquire a terminal capable of receiving their channels, Canal cannot force its customers to use their terminal, whether in SD or HD. This is called sales subornation or forced sale. After several phone calls to customer service, not to mention dozens of emails, and finally a letter to the DGCCRF in Nanterre (they have a "special Canal" service to handle cases: dd92@dgccrf.finances.gouv.fr), I was told that I still had to have the Dual-S and that I would not be charged for it for 18 months. For now, it is in a closet, and I am waiting to see free HD arrive on TNT because I own a Sony KDL 40W3000 with an integrated HD tuner. Canal is aware of the problems with their equipment, and I think the Dual-T, a cousin of the Dual-S, will have the same defects. With a return of competition, several thousand complaints against them, and an ever-increasing departure of subscribers, this should calm them down. Otherwise, one must terminate their contract and look at Bouquet Bis, for example.

NieXuS · Answer

Hello,

I also have the "HD" dual-S decoder and I experienced sound issues on Canal +, a kind of buzzing instead of sound.

I had my decoder replaced with a brand new one (with a new key), the problem disappeared but reappeared the same day.

I eventually noticed, thanks to this forum, that I had activated Dolby, so I deactivated it to switch back to stereo and voilà: the sound came back on Canal +!

Probably a technical issue.

Thank you anyway for the tip,

++

stewartia · Answer

In the short term, you will have other problems, including one that was reported to me recently: the overheating of this device. Today's advice is to use a personal HD satellite receiver such as Topfield, Humax, etc., with a Powercam Pro HD V2.0 module that decodes Viaccess and Mediaguard used for the Canal HD option (as of today, 10/11/2008, the module update is 2.0.4), which I purchased from this site Label.ws, everything you need for TNT and satellite, especially good advice: https://www.2galli.fr/ The Canal equipment provided has more design issues than technical ones. It is often incompatible with recent LCD TVs, and moreover, the customer and technical services are the worst I know. In case of serious and recurring problems, do not hesitate to ask for commercial gestures and also request reimbursement for phone calls: the 3910 has recently increased from 23 cents/min to 34 cents/min. If you want to bypass the satellite issue, you can take a TNT HD decoder: Sagem ITAD92 HD for less than 60 euros (some sites offer it for +/- 200 euros but it is still linked to the same subscription), with a Viaccess card reader (card provided). The TNTop subscription is mandatory for 1 year but after this period the decoder belongs to you, you can transfer your Canal+ rights to this card and return their decoder (no more 8 euros per month). In any case, you keep the mentioned Sagem decoder and at a minimum will have access to the free TNT HD channels that will start broadcasting at the end of October 2008.

Mathias · Answer

Thank you for this valuable advice... I went to a CanalSat dealer and when asking for an HD subscription, everything got complicated, it's not possible to have a simple card plan, it's not possible to sign up for a subscription immediately (no decoders in stock...), the sellers have never heard of problems related to the decoders... in short, the path of a warrior.
I have a question? Are the HD programs up to par, how many programs are really in HD (general channels)?

stewartia · Answer

Pour the Powercam pro module, the update is done on Hotbird 13E, contact Label.ws (02 37 38 73 03) for the extension kit and an MTI LNB 0.2db (€7.90). Astra at 19°E requires an 80 cm dish for two LNBs. The installation is quite easy and there's no more hassle. For the update instructions for this module, visit their website. The manufacturer's address is here: http://www.powercam.tv/fr/comment-le-mettre-a-jour-/16-2-c.html

stewartia · Answer

According to the latest news, for those who don't want to bother with modules or updates, the Aston Wamba HD has just been released. Just insert your "18" card (HD in Mediaguard) or "39" card (SD in Viaccess) for Canal+ CanalSat or your Bouquet Bis card or other bouquets and you're good to go! The manufacturer's technicians have worked with the new Canal cards, plus you have the seriousness and reliability of this brand. Hello TF1 HD, France 2 HD, M6 HD, Canal+ HD, National Geo HD, etc.... You save on the purchase of a module to read your cards and especially no longer need to call Canal's technical service which has increased from 23cts/min to 34cts/min that announces a non-billed waiting time when you're with certain ISPs (it's nonsense) and in the end, you have to change your Canal terminal for the umpteenth time and watch it crash just like the previous one. Beware also of Canal distributors; the last one to check my Dual-S terminal (HD reception card 18) started by connecting it via the SCART socket................ Not to mention those who tell you that you must take the Canal terminal to decode the 18 card because no other device can do it, which is false. These pups are mainly recruited for their docility and incompetence and to take advantage of subscribers, which reflects Canal's respect for customers. This monopoly position creates abuses that I hope will soon be corrected. It's still unfortunate to make dozens of phone calls for a technical problem or this annoying habit of making "errors" in billing not to mention contract changes without asking your opinion. You ask for information about Foot+: there you are, you're subscribed. You call to rectify the situation: it doesn't work on the first try, you are put on hold and strangely you reach the end of the 30 min call. Not to mention the times you get hung up on. In case of recurring problems, consider sending a letter directly by email to this address: dd92@dgccrf.finances.gouv.fr (it's not a website but an email address) clearly mentioning your customer number and of course your grievances; the letter will be forwarded to Canal's customer service. Later, you will receive by postal mail a file to contact the mediator or even file a complaint.

GERAUT · Answer

Hello everyone,

Regarding the sound on the HD decoders, you need to connect the RCA plugs as well as the Digital plug to the television if it is equipped.
I have no sound issues on all HD channels or not, with the Dual S decoder.

As for communication with the Canal group, you need to forget this bank; it only makes profits to increase its margins and doesn’t care about your problems.
An example: Canal customers leave a deposit of €75 for the decoder, multiplied by three million subscribers, do the math (€225 million and invest that money at 3% a year, profit €6.75 million).
They only provide the minimum; they replace your decoder and have it run with the manufacturer that guaranteed it, which costs Canal nothing, etc.

Another example: the new free HD TNT channels (TF1, A2, M6, Arté) are not available on CanalSat,
they remain encrypted; you have to pay, always paying Canal, it’s a money affair. Fortunately, socialist François Mitterand allowed the creation of Canal; it’s true that some of his ministers were billionaires.
P.S. (I am the son of a worker, I have worked since I was 14, and I am apolitical), I cannot help
but think that we are being treated like "well, let’s stay polite, like idiots."

To get back to Canal, television is a luxury in France; I paid up to €960 a year for the programs, Canal+, Canalsat. I have halved my annual subscription due to purchasing power and employment constraints.

So, don’t dream, don’t expect anything from the Canal group, fend for yourselves, that’s what they think, but they won’t tell you.

Geraut

stewartia · Answer

For my part, I already had a personal HD satellite decoder; I only needed the "18" card. As you say, I managed to deal with it, and after several complaints and letters to the fraud prevention office in Nanterre, I got back the security deposit for the Dual-S as well as the card, without having to rent this terminal until April 2010 (by then they will have time to change their offer; otherwise, since I have an HD TNT tuner on my TV, I will get a "39" card). A refund of about 38 euros for the problems caused, free subscription in August, September, and October, a discount for November. For now, Canal stubbornly links the Dual-S and the "18" card (HD), but with the arrival of free HD TNT, the Canal+ HD offer as it currently stands will no longer hold up. As I've already said, there are several thousand complaints at the fraud prevention office, the magazine 60 Millions de Consommateurs has received several letters regarding the "errors" in direct debits and various violations of the consumer code. This cost me about 150 euros, but I recovered nearly 240 euros excluding the 144 euros for equipment rental, and I will send a letter to get reimbursed for the phone. I don't think we should give up; Canal is losing quite a few customers, not to mention that with this crisis, some will be cutting back. There are other cheaper satellite and TNT packages. We need to leverage competition. Lastly, it's not just the sound issue with the Dual-S; it doesn’t read its cards, regularly crashes (complete reinstallation), refuses to respond to commands, heats up a lot, and consumes 55 watts, which is significantly more than any other terminal. You cannot sort the channels, it crashes in Dolby Digital, and the picture quality in HD is noticeably worse than on a Topfield or Humax. Recently, I purchased the brand new Aston Wamba HD. It is a bit more expensive, but here you are worry-free. It has the best picture quality compared to the others (I know this from having had 4 Dual-S models in a row and a Topfield, which is already very good). The sound is less metallic, very full with its recording function (which I tested on a USB stick in SD and HD on Canal+ Cinema (SD) and Canal+ HD). It's a very intuitive device that has slight crashes, but it's very easy to navigate, and most of the growing pains will be addressed with the release of software version 4 in mid-November. For this update, you have to go to the Aston website to download it onto a USB stick, and that's it. No need for card modules; it reads all Canal cards, Bouquet BIs, etc., since it is compatible with Mediaguard and Viaccess. I inserted the "18" card; for the first boot, it goes into auto-detection mode, recognizes the connected devices: TV, home cinema, cards, external hard drives, the satellite switches if there are any, the satellites of course, and it sets everything up "to perfection." (For those who might have doubts, the technicians have worked with all Canal+ CanalSat SD or HD cards). Some will tell you that only the Dual-S can read the "18" cards; this is false. These are often "Canal" resellers like the Sat & Net site, and they often lack knowledge, like the one who tested a Dual-S with an "18" card using a SCART connection... You have a choice between an Aston Wamba HD, and Aston 2.18 Dual Canal card modules or PowerWam Pro V2.0. The current update on Free x TV (HotBird) is 2.0.4. And a Viaccess module for cards like the "39" for less than 50 euros on Label.ws.
It's your turn to play.

stewartia · Answer

The day before yesterday, I contacted Canal+'s billing service to obtain the discount (advantage zone) on the monthly fees (13%) for former subscribers. At the same time, I asked if I could return the Dual-S (HD option) while keeping my 18 card with HD. The person I spoke to confirmed that this was indeed possible and that she would send me the return voucher. Shortly after, I contacted the DGCCRF in Nanterre to inform them of this response. I was advised to return the terminal with a registered letter with acknowledgment of receipt, mentioning the response from Canal's billing service, in order to cover myself in case of a dispute. This serves as additional argumentation in case a case is opened with the mediator.

Tamaris · Answer

Hello.
Like "many others," I have just "correctly" installed the dual s HD
HDMI connection, configured as indicated, everything good on the technical side. It worked for 1 day and when restarting, it says "please wait" for an update and ....
Then things go wrong... for those who know:
APP, APPL, APLI, PLI, TI, I, AUTO, UTO, TUO ...etc...
It's a Philips version 393472. Supplier NAGA V2.02 NSD 18-29-26-4-09
I did a partial reset because the cursor does not position itself on Total.
It partially works again and you have to wait "a certain" amount of time to switch from one channel to another ...
Like others, there is a sound differential when switching between HD channels and regular ones.
The decoder is set to stereo... It does not respond to volume + or - with the remote control, which I cannot synchronize with my Philips LCD 42PFL 9703H.
All this to say "welcome" to the club and that I'm reading your posts to find a solution and not be "forced" to buy a personal HD decoder for €500.
Do you have any other solutions than exchanging decoders, which are still so hard to find as replacements?
@ Regards.

jeff · Answer

Hi everyone ...

As for me, I finally solved all the problems with my two Philips dual S receivers and the HD option works perfectly including the sound... but the wiring has to be perfect otherwise the dual S tuner crashes... that's where my problems came from because it can work occasionally with an inadequate twin head setup but when it detects interference, it crashes everything permanently. My advice is to do like me and call an antenna technician and after that everything works great.. however, Stewartia is right, Canal+ is abusing its monopoly on the price of options and the rental of the dual S.
Courage to all..

herisson83 · Answer

Hello everyone, a piece of information after solving my issue with many blockages on my DualS with hard drive: I replaced the USB cable that came with the LaCie disk with a shielded cable similar to those for scanners or printers. Since then, almost no problems. If this can help someone...
Regards

stewartia · Answer

I doubt that it's the USB cord but certainly the audio output settings of the Dual-S, or possibly the Dual-S itself. The same goes for the HMI.

jabbau · Answer

You actually need to add an audio cable between the decoder and the television: red and white RCA on the decoder and a jack plug into the DVI audio on the television. This isn't normal, as the HDMI cable should be enough.

yann84 · Answer

Hello everyone
I also had a sound reception problem after some gusts of wind (coincidence or not) no sound when turning it on in the morning.
However, by putting on the Dolby surround it works again: so I apparently have the opposite issue to yours, the stereo doesn't work.
I also have HD, and 2 receivers at home (1 cube and 1 standard HD).
Go figure out the failures of Canal +

Thanks to this site because I was going to have to go back up on the roof, so it’s no longer necessary.

simple · Answer

Hello,  I have sound dropouts with my dual S, but I couldn't find the setting to disconnect Dolby Digital.

simple · Answer

Hello, How to adjust the Dolby settings on the Dual S?

simple · Answer

Good evening, in the Dual S Program, you need to go to settings/sound/ and check the Stereo box instead of Dolby, then press Enter.

simple · Answer

Good evening,
in the Dual S Program, you need to go to settings/sound/ and check the Stereo box instead of Dolby, then press Enter.

I’m willing to change my Dual S demodulator for another one that I will buy, but

Canal + will continue to charge me for the rental because they do not agree...

Sound issues and various DUAL-S decoder

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