ORANGE FIL - A real scam
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Everyone to your bank statements as soon as you make transactions via the Internet or Orange/France Telecom to pay your bills... I’m not talking about top-ups.
I have just suffered the consequences of this scam that I am managing to uncover following the suspension of my line! A heated discussion with the operator informed me that my payments have never gone through. However, proof in the form of my bank statements shows THAT THEY EXIST!
Only problem is... they are debited via CB ORANGE FIL 71 or CB ORANGE FIL 88.
I checked my friend's account... same scenario.
What makes me skeptical is that for at least 2 amounts debited, they match the bill amounts to the nearest cent (which I believed in good faith to have paid).
In the other cases, the amounts are between €15 and €45.
We are filing without further delay the necessary complaints.
I have just suffered the consequences of this scam that I am managing to uncover following the suspension of my line! A heated discussion with the operator informed me that my payments have never gone through. However, proof in the form of my bank statements shows THAT THEY EXIST!
Only problem is... they are debited via CB ORANGE FIL 71 or CB ORANGE FIL 88.
I checked my friend's account... same scenario.
What makes me skeptical is that for at least 2 amounts debited, they match the bill amounts to the nearest cent (which I believed in good faith to have paid).
In the other cases, the amounts are between €15 and €45.
We are filing without further delay the necessary complaints.
16 réponses
Hello everyone. To address your questions and concerns, here’s what you need to do. Go to the police station or the gendarmerie with your bank card number and your account statement. Sometimes, the wording of the transactions listed on your account statements can be misinterpreted by the person receiving your "complaint". Why do I put "complaint" in quotes? You need to know that you are not the owner of your bank card. It belongs to your bank. This means that you are not the victim, but your bank is. Without seeking to understand why, banks tell their clients: "Go file a complaint." Normally, the officer or agent should take your statement with all the useful information (card number - if payment by internet for bills - online purchases - withdrawals abroad - disclosure of card number to help a family member... the list can be long). Then, they can give you a letter stating that an investigation will be conducted IF A COMPLAINT IS FILED BY YOUR BANK and including all useful information for identifying the perpetrators. If there is no letter, it will be up to you to inform your banker.
Indeed, Article L. 132-4 of the Monetary and Financial Code states that the liability of the holder of a mentioned card (that is to say, you) is not engaged if the disputed payment was made fraudulently, remotely, without physical use of the card. Likewise, their liability is not engaged in the case of counterfeiting of their card as defined in Article L. 163-4 and if, at the time of the disputed transaction, they were in physical possession of their card. Furthermore, if the cardholder contests in writing that they made a payment or withdrawal, the disputed amounts will be credited back to their account by the card issuer or refunded, without charge, no later than one month from the receipt of the dispute.
BEWARE of false declarations as the bank could turn against you!!!
In conclusion, you are not required to file a complaint as your bank is the victim. A statement does not necessarily mean "complaint".
Have a good day.
Indeed, Article L. 132-4 of the Monetary and Financial Code states that the liability of the holder of a mentioned card (that is to say, you) is not engaged if the disputed payment was made fraudulently, remotely, without physical use of the card. Likewise, their liability is not engaged in the case of counterfeiting of their card as defined in Article L. 163-4 and if, at the time of the disputed transaction, they were in physical possession of their card. Furthermore, if the cardholder contests in writing that they made a payment or withdrawal, the disputed amounts will be credited back to their account by the card issuer or refunded, without charge, no later than one month from the receipt of the dispute.
BEWARE of false declarations as the bank could turn against you!!!
In conclusion, you are not required to file a complaint as your bank is the victim. A statement does not necessarily mean "complaint".
Have a good day.
Hello,
A topic has already been opened on this subject:
http://www.commentcamarche.net/forum/affich 4020078 orange fraud fil 88
There is a lot of interesting information...
It seems that someone is fraudulently using your credit card to recharge their mobile phone. It is not the Orange Fil service that is a scam.
A topic has already been opened on this subject:
http://www.commentcamarche.net/forum/affich 4020078 orange fraud fil 88
There is a lot of interesting information...
It seems that someone is fraudulently using your credit card to recharge their mobile phone. It is not the Orange Fil service that is a scam.
The last response is very debatable...
Regarding transactions made with your credit card references, the bank usually considers them valid and pays. That's why you are debited.
And if you are debited... You are the victim.
Filing a complaint serves to inform the bank that these transactions are not your doing. Consequently, the bank reimburses you - in principle...
The bank then becomes the victim since it is now the one suffering the loss.
But the bank is insured... and as a result, it rarely files complaints, as doing so would implicitly admit that the credit card system is not 100% reliable.
In short, when you notice debits on your account statement, contest them with your bank... which will ask you to file a complaint. Without this complaint, you will need a lot of patience to obtain a refund from your bank.
The article of monetary code is mainly an argument used by the police to refuse to take the complaint... as it inflates crime statistics... and they know that banks generally do not file complaints.
The Police / Gendarmerie Reception Charter requires these services to accept your complaint. If you encounter a refusal, write to the Public Prosecutor and the service that refused to take the complaint will have to explain this refusal.
Regarding transactions made with your credit card references, the bank usually considers them valid and pays. That's why you are debited.
And if you are debited... You are the victim.
Filing a complaint serves to inform the bank that these transactions are not your doing. Consequently, the bank reimburses you - in principle...
The bank then becomes the victim since it is now the one suffering the loss.
But the bank is insured... and as a result, it rarely files complaints, as doing so would implicitly admit that the credit card system is not 100% reliable.
In short, when you notice debits on your account statement, contest them with your bank... which will ask you to file a complaint. Without this complaint, you will need a lot of patience to obtain a refund from your bank.
The article of monetary code is mainly an argument used by the police to refuse to take the complaint... as it inflates crime statistics... and they know that banks generally do not file complaints.
The Police / Gendarmerie Reception Charter requires these services to accept your complaint. If you encounter a refusal, write to the Public Prosecutor and the service that refused to take the complaint will have to explain this refusal.
I'm coming back to this topic, which may be old but still generates discussion today.
I work within an investigation group on fraud at a police station.
Do you see a withdrawal mentioning the word ORANGE or ORANGE CMO or ORANGE FIL 88?
Look no further, it is indeed ORANGE that receives the payment, as the name is registered and no other company can bear that name.
To stop the payments, it's simple: go to your bank. Your advisor will block it.
So why file a complaint?
The bank uses the complaint to test your credibility, and if it turns out that you lied, you cannot take action against them.
What will the investigator do following this complaint?
Unfortunately, as mentioned earlier, depending on the courts, the amount of the damage, and the workload of the investigators, your case may be treated quickly, or not...
Who is the author of the acts?
The investigator is not obliged to keep you informed of the identity if the investigation is ongoing, but at some point, you will know the identity of the "fraudster."
Knowing that to recharge a mobile phone you must obtain the 16 digits of the credit card to be used, it is necessarily someone who had access to your card or a close relative; in a truly exceptional case, your code was stolen by a stranger you do not really know.
Who then (in order of probability)?
- roommate, friend, boyfriend, child, family in general.
- a passerby, a person who found your card on the ground (which you previously lost)
- a person who called you pretending to be an organization needing your credit card numbers (companies never ask for them after calling you, so know this), a person working for an organization for which you paid a sum over the phone and who noted the numbers on a piece of paper (very rare and it is better to pay your bills through audiotel services).
Has my credit card been hacked?
This hypothesis should be completely discounted. Indeed, if someone has such ingenuity to hack your credit card, it would not be for mobile phone recharges, but to duplicate your card and your account would be charged hundreds, if not thousands, of euros.
What does the person who recharged their phone risk?
This is fraud, punishable according to the penal code by a maximum of 5 years in prison and a high fine.
In the event of prosecution by the court, the minimum will be a request for reimbursement from the victim (in this case, Orange, since your bank will have reimbursed you and will have turned to Orange).
The amateur fraudster will likely have their line cut (so check if your child has had their line cut shortly after your card was blocked).
Specific case, the author is your minor child.
You have been reimbursed by your bank, but your child confessed to the police to being the author of the fraud.
You are civilly responsible for your child, so it is you who will have to pay for your child's misdeeds (what an irony).
Another case, you are the author of the recharges for which you filed a complaint.
You risk spending 24 hours in police custody for making a false complaint about an imaginary offense (punishable by 1 year in prison).
What should I do then?
With the information provided, inform your loved ones about the risks incurred in case of a complaint from you.
If everyone denies the facts, file a complaint... but you may be surprised.
I work within an investigation group on fraud at a police station.
Do you see a withdrawal mentioning the word ORANGE or ORANGE CMO or ORANGE FIL 88?
Look no further, it is indeed ORANGE that receives the payment, as the name is registered and no other company can bear that name.
To stop the payments, it's simple: go to your bank. Your advisor will block it.
So why file a complaint?
The bank uses the complaint to test your credibility, and if it turns out that you lied, you cannot take action against them.
What will the investigator do following this complaint?
Unfortunately, as mentioned earlier, depending on the courts, the amount of the damage, and the workload of the investigators, your case may be treated quickly, or not...
Who is the author of the acts?
The investigator is not obliged to keep you informed of the identity if the investigation is ongoing, but at some point, you will know the identity of the "fraudster."
Knowing that to recharge a mobile phone you must obtain the 16 digits of the credit card to be used, it is necessarily someone who had access to your card or a close relative; in a truly exceptional case, your code was stolen by a stranger you do not really know.
Who then (in order of probability)?
- roommate, friend, boyfriend, child, family in general.
- a passerby, a person who found your card on the ground (which you previously lost)
- a person who called you pretending to be an organization needing your credit card numbers (companies never ask for them after calling you, so know this), a person working for an organization for which you paid a sum over the phone and who noted the numbers on a piece of paper (very rare and it is better to pay your bills through audiotel services).
Has my credit card been hacked?
This hypothesis should be completely discounted. Indeed, if someone has such ingenuity to hack your credit card, it would not be for mobile phone recharges, but to duplicate your card and your account would be charged hundreds, if not thousands, of euros.
What does the person who recharged their phone risk?
This is fraud, punishable according to the penal code by a maximum of 5 years in prison and a high fine.
In the event of prosecution by the court, the minimum will be a request for reimbursement from the victim (in this case, Orange, since your bank will have reimbursed you and will have turned to Orange).
The amateur fraudster will likely have their line cut (so check if your child has had their line cut shortly after your card was blocked).
Specific case, the author is your minor child.
You have been reimbursed by your bank, but your child confessed to the police to being the author of the fraud.
You are civilly responsible for your child, so it is you who will have to pay for your child's misdeeds (what an irony).
Another case, you are the author of the recharges for which you filed a complaint.
You risk spending 24 hours in police custody for making a false complaint about an imaginary offense (punishable by 1 year in prison).
What should I do then?
With the information provided, inform your loved ones about the risks incurred in case of a complaint from you.
If everyone denies the facts, file a complaint... but you may be surprised.
Hello, you summarized the problem very well. Before filing a complaint, we ask ourselves questions: friends, family, neighbors. After reflection, I filed a complaint today, specifically at the Orange store in Montrouge. I was in class when I made my statement; the officer noted all the purchases I had made in the previous days during the Christmas period—quite a few small purchases where businesses rely on temporary workers. When I went to the bank to deposit my copy of the complaint, my bank teller made an interesting remark: "You are the second one today." So I told her that the officer had noted my previous purchases and... well yes, the other person had gone to the same store, perhaps by chance, you might say!!! To be continued.
Thank you to Google for existing because I see that I'm not the only one.
My accountant just came across it, with amounts of 125 euros and is looking for the number of times.
How do we file a complaint???
Thank you for your responses.
My accountant just came across it, with amounts of 125 euros and is looking for the number of times.
How do we file a complaint???
Thank you for your responses.
Good evening,
I have a boyfriend who experienced the same mishap... on June 27, 2008, his account was debited 78.69 euros as if he had paid by credit card, and his account statement shows a credit card payment to Orange Fil 71.
What is most bizarre is that he had just received his new card with its code a few days earlier and had only used it to withdraw money or check his account transactions.
His bank advised him to file a complaint, which he wanted to do this afternoon, but the officer who received him at the police station where he went was reluctant to take his complaint... so due to this charming welcome, he left.
Would it be possible to get advice on how to successfully handle this matter? THANK YOU...
I have a boyfriend who experienced the same mishap... on June 27, 2008, his account was debited 78.69 euros as if he had paid by credit card, and his account statement shows a credit card payment to Orange Fil 71.
What is most bizarre is that he had just received his new card with its code a few days earlier and had only used it to withdraw money or check his account transactions.
His bank advised him to file a complaint, which he wanted to do this afternoon, but the officer who received him at the police station where he went was reluctant to take his complaint... so due to this charming welcome, he left.
Would it be possible to get advice on how to successfully handle this matter? THANK YOU...
re,
Even if the officer seems doubtful, you have the right to file a complaint, and he cannot refuse you.
If that is still the case, write to the public prosecutor in your jurisdiction.
The police/gendarmerie welcome charter clearly states in Article 5, "the police or gendarmerie services are required to accept complaints filed by victims of criminal offenses," and you are indeed a victim of a violation of the criminal law.
Best regards
Even if the officer seems doubtful, you have the right to file a complaint, and he cannot refuse you.
If that is still the case, write to the public prosecutor in your jurisdiction.
The police/gendarmerie welcome charter clearly states in Article 5, "the police or gendarmerie services are required to accept complaints filed by victims of criminal offenses," and you are indeed a victim of a violation of the criminal law.
Best regards
I filed a complaint yesterday for the same issue; my account was debited 54 euros in 8 days, but I would like to know if it is Orange Mobile that is collecting it.
To respond to Star, it must be said that most of the time, the person who used your credit card to top up their phone is someone from your circle, usually young. Indeed, they do not yet know that it is possible to find out, with a judicial requisition, the phone number or the IMEI of the phone of the person who topped up using a credit card that does not belong to them (in case of fraudulent use).
To answer your question, you yourself cannot know who used your credit card. Only law enforcement can request a judicial requisition. After that, you will be summoned again and you will probably be told the name of the perpetrator.
To answer your question, you yourself cannot know who used your credit card. Only law enforcement can request a judicial requisition. After that, you will be summoned again and you will probably be told the name of the perpetrator.
And what to do when the police station has registered your complaint, the bank says it will reimburse you, but you still want to know the name of the person in your circle who used your debit card? At the police station, they told me that it wasn't certain they would issue a request because it costs money! But I want to know who it is!!!
Hello. It all depends on the amount that was used. Generally, the amounts for phone top-ups are not high (between €10 and €50). However, if there were several amounts debited before you noticed, the courts may allow a request to the phone operator. It does come at a cost, that's true. But do your investigation around you to find out who has an "ORANGE" phone and who was at your place (and who might have noted down the credit card numbers) 1, 2, or 3 days before the date of the top-up purchase.
Hello everyone. If it can help you, I will explain how this scam happened to me. I noticed two months ago some repetitive "orange thread 88" transactions in my bank statements. The amounts ranged from 5 to 25 euros and sometimes several times a day. So, I went to the bank to block my card and report the fraud. I was then told to go file a complaint at the police station. Afterwards, my banker gave me the number for the service that handles refunds for fraudulent transactions. I called them to request a file. Once I received the file, I filled it out with my banker and attached my statement. In parallel, I regularly receive phone calls from the police station keeping me informed about the progress of their investigation. Just today, I was summoned. They managed to find the phone number of the person who used my card instead of me. It turns out to be one of my former roommates... As for the refund, it has not yet been processed because the procedure takes time.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
I make no online purchases with my credit card. I’m also not with Orange. When I withdraw money from the ATM, I hide. And yet, I was charged 20 and 25 euros by Fil Orange Montrouge on July 15 and 17!!!!!!
My daughter: same, no online purchases, she isn’t with Orange and yet in May, they deducted 120 euros from her with Fil Orange Montrouge and Neuilly
The police officer where I filed the complaint told me that I shouldn’t make any online purchases.
Personally, I think that just going online to check your bank account is already opening the door to many scams.
I am very perplexed.
My daughter: same, no online purchases, she isn’t with Orange and yet in May, they deducted 120 euros from her with Fil Orange Montrouge and Neuilly
The police officer where I filed the complaint told me that I shouldn’t make any online purchases.
Personally, I think that just going online to check your bank account is already opening the door to many scams.
I am very perplexed.
I just saw today that Orange fil 73 debited the amount of (hold on to your seats) 438.88 euros from my bank account. Of course, I am not subscribed to anything with them, so it is impossible for me to owe them money. Tonight, I will question my family since some are with Orange =/ Of course, I don't expect that if one of them is guilty, they will tell the truth. Anyway, I have read, thanks to you, all the procedures to follow, so tomorrow I will do what is necessary to recover the amount that was stolen from me, hoping everything goes well.
Same problem, I have over 100 € in withdrawals per month, sometimes the same amount twice a day!
How can I put an end to this? Help!
Thank you.
How can I put an end to this? Help!
Thank you.
Good evening, these questions do not concern the
High Tech section of the site but the Law/Finance part and
more specifically the "Consumer" forum.
Click ►HERE.
Thank you.
--
We all learned one day, we should never forget it...
High Tech section of the site but the Law/Finance part and
more specifically the "Consumer" forum.
Click ►HERE.
Thank you.
--
We all learned one day, we should never forget it...
I received a phone call
A person who told me that he worked for Orange
*They had received my letter
She asked me to send them two bank statements because Orange made a mistake and they want to investigate my case because there was no money withdrawn from their account? Who should I believe?
I did
I made two copies and sent them to Orange
The amounts were 56 and 86 euros
Today I received an email from Orange saying that 110 euros would be deducted from my next bill
Pure scam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A person who told me that he worked for Orange
*They had received my letter
She asked me to send them two bank statements because Orange made a mistake and they want to investigate my case because there was no money withdrawn from their account? Who should I believe?
I did
I made two copies and sent them to Orange
The amounts were 56 and 86 euros
Today I received an email from Orange saying that 110 euros would be deducted from my next bill
Pure scam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hello
you still haven't received a refund for 2 months? Because according to article L. 132-4 mentioned above, you have to wait a maximum of 1 month.
you still haven't received a refund for 2 months? Because according to article L. 132-4 mentioned above, you have to wait a maximum of 1 month.
It is true, I confirm that article L 132-4 of the monetary and financial code provides for the reimbursement of the disputed amount within one month. However, you must first file a complaint and contest it in writing with your bank. The letter of contestation sent by registered mail with acknowledgment of receipt is the law. You can consult the legal texts on the Legifrance website, then go to the code and article that interests you, in this case the code mentioned above.
Once filed, the National Police or Gendarmerie will be able (with the authorization of the prosecuting magistrate, the Prosecutor or substitute) to establish the necessary requisitions (only by a Judicial Police Officer, as stated in the CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, art 77-1 and 77-1-1) for the manifestation of the truth and identification of the author of the fraud.
It should be noted that these acts of criminal procedure do indeed cost money to the Justice system and are sometimes limited to cases where the damages are significant.
You will nonetheless be informed of the follow-up to your complaint.
Once filed, the National Police or Gendarmerie will be able (with the authorization of the prosecuting magistrate, the Prosecutor or substitute) to establish the necessary requisitions (only by a Judicial Police Officer, as stated in the CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, art 77-1 and 77-1-1) for the manifestation of the truth and identification of the author of the fraud.
It should be noted that these acts of criminal procedure do indeed cost money to the Justice system and are sometimes limited to cases where the damages are significant.
You will nonetheless be informed of the follow-up to your complaint.
I was a victim of this scam.
As soon as I realized this fraud, I called my bank. My advisor asked me to write a handwritten dispute "I, the undersigned, Mr. Machin, holder of card no. ......", where I had to list all the transactions I wanted to contest, namely those in the name of Orange FIL 88. My advisor took care of the rest, which included canceling my debit card contract to send me a brand new one. Oh surprise, the next day I was reimbursed.
Just to clarify, I'm with LcL; I don't know if it works the same way at all banks.
As soon as I realized this fraud, I called my bank. My advisor asked me to write a handwritten dispute "I, the undersigned, Mr. Machin, holder of card no. ......", where I had to list all the transactions I wanted to contest, namely those in the name of Orange FIL 88. My advisor took care of the rest, which included canceling my debit card contract to send me a brand new one. Oh surprise, the next day I was reimbursed.
Just to clarify, I'm with LcL; I don't know if it works the same way at all banks.
Hello,
I got quite a scare reading your messages because I just noticed a debit of €35 on my statement
with the beneficiary being: ORANGE FIL 75 (Montrouge)
And while searching my memory and on my phone, I realized that it's actually a top-up for my prepaid card.
So maybe you should check if that’s not the case for you.
I got quite a scare reading your messages because I just noticed a debit of €35 on my statement
with the beneficiary being: ORANGE FIL 75 (Montrouge)
And while searching my memory and on my phone, I realized that it's actually a top-up for my prepaid card.
So maybe you should check if that’s not the case for you.
Hello, I also had 40 euros debited even though I never make purchases online and never share my credit card number. I had to go to the police station + fees for a new card + 15 days without a card + overdraft. I'm 17, but what are banks doing????
I just had a somewhat similar misadventure: after my wallet was stolen, which contained my debit card - and before I had the time to block it - a transaction was made with it.
On my statement, it appears with the description "ORANGE FIL 88 92 MONTR" for an amount of 100 euros,
so it would seem to be a mobile top-up if I understand correctly.
I filed a complaint at the police station, but I was told that since the damage suffered was "only" 100
euros, there would be no request for a rogatory commission to intervene with ORANGE, as it would cost between 300 and 400 euros.
I am therefore wondering what other recourse we have to put an end to such scams.
Viggo
Paris
On my statement, it appears with the description "ORANGE FIL 88 92 MONTR" for an amount of 100 euros,
so it would seem to be a mobile top-up if I understand correctly.
I filed a complaint at the police station, but I was told that since the damage suffered was "only" 100
euros, there would be no request for a rogatory commission to intervene with ORANGE, as it would cost between 300 and 400 euros.
I am therefore wondering what other recourse we have to put an end to such scams.
Viggo
Paris
Hello everyone, I also got scammed, but it was with a stolen check that they bought Mobicarte top-ups in a large store. My loss is quite significant, and above all, I suspect someone in my circle without being able to prove it. If I knew the phone number of the person who recharged their phone, I would certainly have the thief! So, does anyone know on this forum if it's possible to trace the beneficiary of the recharge receipt, knowing that the store only has a copy of the receipt? The police tell me that in this case, unlike fraud by credit card, it's not possible to make a requisition with Orange, whereas an Orange representative in the Mobicarte customer service told me it was possible! Thank you for your contributions, I feel completely helpless.
Hello, exactly the same thing happened to me a few days ago. I lost (or had stolen...) my wallet with my debit card inside. By the time I blocked it, a transaction had already been made. Just like you, I was very upset to see a charge of 100 euros with the description "ORANGE FIL 88". I would like to know what you did and how it went. I am leaving for Quebec in a week and unfortunately, I am afraid this might hinder filing a complaint.
Thank you in advance.
Thank you in advance.
@Viggo :
Hello, I had exactly the same thing happen to me. Loss (or theft...) of my credit card and not being able to block it until a few hours later, someone used my card numbers. I now see a charge of 100 euros on my statement with the label ORANGE FIL 88. I would like to know how the procedure went that you followed afterwards? I was planning to file a complaint, but I'm leaving for Quebec in a week, so I won't be reachable and I'm worried that this will delay my report.
Thank you in advance.
Hello, I had exactly the same thing happen to me. Loss (or theft...) of my credit card and not being able to block it until a few hours later, someone used my card numbers. I now see a charge of 100 euros on my statement with the label ORANGE FIL 88. I would like to know how the procedure went that you followed afterwards? I was planning to file a complaint, but I'm leaving for Quebec in a week, so I won't be reachable and I'm worried that this will delay my report.
Thank you in advance.
I just noticed this charge on my fiancé's account
in 4 months, we have been charged 375 euros plus this month's charge which I don't know yet
we will file a complaint tomorrow morning and then we will go to the bank
we have already canceled the credit card