Neighbor connection

chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   -  
brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   -
Hello,

I am on the ground floor of a building, surrounded by other buildings. My neighbors have their own Wi-Fi network.

I have Windows 10 and I have selected the private network. The only devices that are allowed to connect to my PC, either via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi, are the devices that are in my home, and they belong to me.

I have activated notifications, and I want to keep them.

One day in October 2020, I was browsing the internet with my desktop PC when suddenly, at the bottom right of my screen, a message appeared explaining that the smartphone belonging to my neighbor upstairs (1st floor) wanted to connect to my PC.

I found this message very strange.

But the unpleasant surprise was reading that my neighbor's smartphone upstairs wanted to connect to my PC.

I have no desire to share my folders, my files, my printer, my smartphones, and other devices on my private network with my neighbors.

Therefore, I have three questions for knowledgeable volunteers: how did this message appear on my screen? How can I prevent my neighbors' devices from connecting to my network even if the neighbors are unaware? How is it possible that my neighbor's device managed to connect?

I myself had a lot of trouble connecting my own devices to my PC.

The notification message clearly asked me if I wanted to allow the connection, block it for one time, or block it forever.

Of course, I chose: "block forever".

There you go, I've said the most. I can answer any additional questions. I am therefore awaiting your comments on this situation that I am experiencing for the first time, while my neighbors have been here for years.

Thank you and see you soon!

Configuration: Windows / Chrome 86.0.4240.111

--
I am a beginner in computers and the internet. Desktop PC: HP Slim Desktop 290

6 réponses

madmyke Posted messages 52304 Registration date   Status Modérateur Last intervention   12 483
 
Hello

Your network (box/wifi we assume) is by default "visible" and therefore anyone in the emission area can see it as an access point.
But they may not necessarily be able to connect, as proof.
If you want nobody to see your network, you need to limit it in your box with the MAC addresses of authorized machines and also disable the SSID visibility, which will make your network invisible (but also for you).

Nothing suspicious about that.
Regards

--
"We swallow whole the lie that flatters us and we drink drop by drop a truth that is bitter to us."
0
avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention   4 511
 
Hello,

I'm afraid hiding the SSID doesn't change anything in terms of security ;(

And MAC blocking is also ineffective if the WPA2 password is compromised, as the hacker who has captured the exchange of keys (and can read them by knowing the password) can communicate directly with the victim's computer, without going through the WiFi point.

If the password is not compromised, then there's no connection to the WiFi point and MAC blocking is not useful.

But I think that in the scenario presented here, either the WiFi is open, or the password is compromised, otherwise I don't understand how communication via WiFi between the smartphone and the computer would be possible, since the computer is supposed to accept only frames encrypted with the keys exchanged with the WiFi point.
1
brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 416 > avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention  
 
Hi,
The MAC blocking is also ineffective if the WPA2 password is compromised, as the hacker who captured the key exchange (and can read them knowing the password) can communicate directly with the victim's computer, without going through the WiFi point.

I don't see how, even if the WiFi network was open, filtering the MAC address would prevent it from communicating with the AP.
0
avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention   4 511 > brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
Hello brupala!

Is the hacker required to go through the AP once they know the password (and thus can extract the keys via the captured handshake), or can they directly communicate with the computer by impersonating the AP by forging frames exactly like the AP does?

The hacker does not connect to the SSID, and they are not creating an "evil twin"; they are just forging encrypted frames with the captured keys and broadcasting them on the correct channel.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 > brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
Hello Brupala,

I do not understand your technical terms:

What does "PA" mean?

My wifi network is not open. It has always had 1 wifi key, displayed on my orange box.

And I didn't know that a wifi could be "open".

Thank you.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14
 
Thank you for responding to me...

Yes, I do have an Orange box with Wi-Fi....

So you want me to intervene on my box, in the "mac" settings???

I'm bothered by the idea of hiding my personal network name. How will I know if it’s still working???

Will my devices still be able to connect?

And when I have a problem with the internet, I call 3900 (Orange). Am I not going to have a problem with Orange if I have to hide my Wi-Fi network?

For now, I know how to use the "block permanently" link, and this is really the first time I've seen this message, even though my neighbors have been here for years since I’ve lived in the neighborhood. (They are the same neighbors).
--
I am a beginner in computing and the internet. Desktop PC: HP Slim Desktop 290
0
brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 416
 
I wonder which tool displays this notification; it seems, a priori, that it is not the Windows network, and we should check if your box has seen this connection from the neighbor's mobile.
In any case, hiding your SSID does not prevent you from connecting as long as it does not change, but even if you do change it, it is enough to enter it manually by choosing to connect to an unknown network.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 > brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
Hello Brupala, I'm replying to your message from November 2, 2020, at 8:22 AM... These are the details that show up on my screen....

I have Windows 10 64-bit. I voluntarily activated notifications for certain applications that I use personally. These are manipulations that I enable in the settings as shown in the attached image.

However, I don't know which applications displayed this notification in French informing me that my neighbor's phone wanted to connect to my computer. The message did not say that my neighbor's phone wanted to connect to my box. There was the name of my neighbor's phone, but I blocked it immediately without noting my neighbor's specific references. So, I don't remember anymore.

On my Orange box, in its settings, I delete the names of all the devices that have connected to my network for over a week. In those settings, I see device names in alphanumeric form.

Thank you for reading my message.

Here is the attached png screenshot of my notification settings:

0
brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 416 > chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
So,
what tool did you block it with?
In alphanumeric form in the bx?
Does that mean you don't have the names of the machines, but their MAC addresses?
Why are you emptying this list, are there that many people?
0
avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention   4 511
 
Hello,

For your neighbor's smartphone to have been able to connect to your computer to request file sharing, it means that Ethernet and/or IP communication is possible, and therefore, that the smartphone is connected to your WiFi.

Either you have an open WiFi network, in which case you should immediately add a strong password so that your neighbors stop connecting to it, whether intentionally or by mistake. In this case, there is no reason to suspect ill intentions on the part of your neighbors: the smartphone can automatically connect to an open WiFi without the neighbor having requested it.

Or your WiFi network is already protected by a password, in which case an outsider should not be able to connect to it. There has clearly been an active action on the part of one of your neighbors with the intent to steal the WiFi password. I suggest that you change your WiFi password immediately, making sure to choose a strong password.

For your information, a WPA2 password consisting of 8 digits can be hacked... in 2 seconds! Therefore, it is necessary to combine numbers, letters, and special characters. A WiFi network protected by WPA2 is encrypted, but the encryption relies on keys that are exchanged during the connection, and this exchange is secured by the WiFi password. The security of WiFi encryption thus depends on the choice of this WiFi password. The procedure for capturing this key exchange (EAPOL packets) using software like Wireshark and then attempting to crack the WPA2 password via brute-force is well documented on the Internet and is accessible to jokers, and the only way to protect against a brute-force attack is by choosing a complex password.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14
 
Good evening to you!

So, not only do I have to change my password, but on top of that, you're also going to tell me to change it regularly???

Thank you.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 > chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
Here is the screenshot of my box settings:

It's a png image. I hope you can see it. It's the first time I'm doing this. What should I change?

0
avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention   4 511 > chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
If the password is well-chosen, it should not be necessary to change it regularly. That said, changing the password every 3 months, for example, can be an excellent idea. It’s up to you to weigh “the security gain from changing the password occasionally” against “the inconvenience of having to reconnect your devices every time.”

Normally, connecting a device with an interface (like a computer, a console, or a smartphone) to WiFi only takes a minute when you're used to it :) It can become more cumbersome for other connected devices.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14
 
Good evening,

the story I’m telling you took place a few days ago in October 2020.... And since then, nothing....

When I read at the bottom right of my screen the notification message that my neighbor's smartphone wanted to connect to my HP Slim PC, I chose the option "block forever".

And since that day, nothing. I see and hear nothing abnormal. There have been no other connection attempts from another device.

My network is private and for home use.

My computer turns off and on without any problem whenever I wish. My peripherals work normally.

I have Windows 10 and I have disabled the Bluetooth on my PC.

I have sent you above a screenshot of my Livebox screen settings on the WiFi icon.

Moreover, I do not understand the words "open WiFi". On my Livebox, I have disabled the Orange hotspot.

What else is there to do or know?

Thank you for reading me.

--
I am a beginner in computers and the internet. Desktop PC: HP Slim Desktop 290
0
avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention   4 511
 
The fact that a smartphone was able to request access to your computer via the network means that this smartphone was indeed connected to the same network as your computer.

So it seems that the neighbor has connected to your network despite the password protection, and even if this does not hinder the proper functioning of your computer, and although it does not directly pose a risk to your data, you are particularly responsible for what this person does on the Internet using your connection.

“What else is there to do or know?”

I highly recommend that you change your WiFi password if you haven't already done so! :)

“Moreover, I do not understand the words 'open wifi'. On my livebox, I have disabled the orange hotspot.”

An open WiFi is a WiFi without a password, accessible to everyone. The connection to the network is not encrypted. The lack of this encryption at the network level does not, of course, prevent the use of encryption at the application level (such as HTTPS) for secure browsing.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 > avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention  
 
Hello,

I don’t quite understand what the text means: “and while this does not directly pose a risk to your data, you are particularly responsible for what this person does on the Internet using your connection.”

What does that mean?

I have Windows 10.... And my password, after turning on my PC, to access my computer is different from my Wi-Fi password.

Do I need to change all of this too????
0
avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention   4 511 > chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
This means that if someone uses your Internet access to do illegal things online, the consequences will fall on you because the connection will come from your Internet access. Therefore, you should especially avoid sharing your WiFi password outside your family circle, and definitely not create a WiFi network accessible to everyone.

The WiFi password should be changed.
Your computer password does not appear to be compromised, so there is no need to change it.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 > avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention  
 
Hello,

I just received the notification of your message.

I change my wifi key often, especially after sharing it.

But I don't quite understand your phrase: "and especially not to create a wifi accessible to everyone."

Where am I supposed to create that wifi??? On the Orange box or on the Windows of my slim PC??

Thank you for your comment.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14
 
Hello,

I don't quite understand these stories of "hacking" on open wifi...

For years, I have been used to going to a certain "store" in a certain shopping center in the neighboring town.

And he openly displays the password for his own wifi in the waiting area.... He is the only one who does this, unlike other merchants located in the same shopping center.

I connect to his wifi to use some of my Android applications and other non-Android applications.

This store is mostly frequented by women of various ages. And in the waiting area, I see other customers using their own smartphones, but I don't know if they have their own wifi.

However, I have never managed to access his business in a technical way. The merchant's wifi key only serves me to surf the internet and open my normal applications. So what do all these stories of "hacking" and "open wifi" that I read about in this forum mean?

Thank you for reading me.

--
I am a beginner in computers and the internet. Desktop PC: HP Slim Desktop 290
0
brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 416
 
And he displays freely, in the waiting room, the password for his own wifi.... He is the only one doing this, unlike other retailers located in the same shopping center.

I connect to his wifi to use some of my Android applications and other non-Android applications.

This business is mainly frequented by women of various ages. And in the waiting room, I see other customers touching their own smartphones, but I don’t know if they have their own wifi.

However, I have never been able to access his business online. The retailer's wifi key only serves me to browse and open my regular applications. So what do all these stories of "hacking" and "open wifi" that I read in this forum mean?


What he displays is probably the key to a guest wifi, not his private network, but as F16 said, that doesn’t exclude his responsibility if someone sends a threatening email to the President of the Republic from his connection; it could go very badly for him afterward.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 > brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
On my personal Orange box, I disabled the guest wifi. I only keep the regular wifi for myself...

Strangely, this Monday morning, I tried to contact Orange at 3900, but the technicians are unavailable...

Why is that???
0
avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention   4 511
 
Hello,

In the case of an open WiFi (without a password), or a WiFi where the password is intentionally shared, there is no need to hack the network since access is possible in a "normal" way.

Once connected to this merchant's network, you access the Internet using this merchant's Internet connection. If one of their visitors does illegal things online, the (gendarmerie/justice) will see this merchant's IP address, and will then approach this merchant for explanations. If the merchant is unable to provide "records" indicating who connected to their network in order to access a given site, then the merchant will be held liable. That’s why administrators of corporate networks or hotspot networks must implement authentication and log "who accesses what, and when." Some merchants, well-meaning and wanting to help their customers, have already faced legal consequences for naively opening their WiFi or giving out the password.
https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/des-patrons-de-bars-en-garde-a-vue-a-cause-du-wi-fi-offert-a-leurs-clients_AN-202009290142.html

But let’s return to your own WiFi at home. This is a WiFi that is not supposed to be shared outside of your private circle; you have not implemented any solutions to individually authenticate who connects to your network for what purpose. Therefore, if a neighbor connects to your network and does illegal things, you will not be able to prove that it was the neighbor, and thus, you will pay in their place. It is therefore crucial to ensure that no one else but you uses your own Internet access; in fact, this seems obvious, and I find it hard to understand what you don't get about this.

As for the use of the word "hacking," I assumed that your WiFi is password-protected and that you have not shared this password with the neighbor. If the latter has managed to connect to your WiFi, then it seems that there has indeed been a hacking of your WiFi password. As already stated, it's within everyone's reach; the technique may take more or less time depending on the complexity of the WiFi password: an 8-digit password can be cracked in a few seconds, while a longer password made up of letters/numbers/symbols may take months to be hacked.
0
brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 416 > chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
Orange, it's not here ....
In any case, there are no technicians at 3900, their place is in the field; answering the phone is the job of call centers.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 > avion-f16 Posted messages 19268 Registration date   Status Contributeur Last intervention  
 
I quote your sentence:
"It is therefore crucial to ensure that no one else but you uses your own access to the Internet; in fact, it seems obvious to me, I have a hard time understanding what you don't get about that."

I understand the problem. During my successive personal Orange boxes, I always had 1 different Wi-Fi key provided directly by Orange.

But I never thought to change it.

My current Wi-Fi is indeed protected by 1 password, which I have already changed since acquiring it. Once a month, that’s good... Moreover, I also change the password of my current PC which runs on Windows 10.

And when I share my Wi-Fi with a neighbor, a mother of a family, after she no longer needs it, I change my Wi-Fi key.

Orange does not want to change the name of my box. So, even if I change my Wi-Fi key, the name of my box does not change.

Another detail I noticed in your text, "a password of 8 digits can be cracked in a few seconds". Personally, I have currently chosen a longer Wi-Fi password, with different types of characters. I think that’s good...

Regarding the internet link that talks about the police and bar owners, this Monday morning, I went to the local gendarmerie to talk to them about this intrusion from the neighbor's phone; the police officer who received me saw or heard nothing unusual in my story. He does not see where the problems or dangerous actions are.

For him, it’s normal that in an apartment building, the neighbor made an attempt to access my internet since he is my neighbor.

Thank you for reading me, and see you soon!
0
brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 416
 
Here,
by the way,
I was playing with my Bluetooth there ...
the notification you received really looks like a Bluetooth connection notification, are you sure it didn't come from BT rather than your wifi?
from a neighbor, it's possible.
Was it active or not?

--
and ... There you go!
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14
 
Good evening brupala,

Yes, on the day my neighbor connected, both the wifi and Bluetooth ON MY HP COMPUTER,

were activated.

And the notification appeared at the bottom right of my screen, in white letters.

The message said in French, (neighbor's phone alphanumeric ID) followed by the line below (neighbor's real first name and last name) wants to connect to (my slim PC's alphanumeric ID).

And immediately, another message appeared, in French: "allow," "block once," and "block forever."

After being very surprised, I immediately chose, with my wired mouse: "block forever."

And right away the message disappeared. Unfortunately, I didn't think to take a screenshot.

And since then, nothing from any neighbor.

I hope it was an accidental connection. It pains me to think that this neighbor deliberately wanted to connect to my PC. This man is about 40 years old.

I do not invite my neighbors into my home, especially during the covid period, especially this neighbor L.A., and so I will not accept that their electronic devices intentionally connect to my folders, my files, or my peripherals.

Of course, notifications do sometimes appear at the top right of my screen. For example, new messages from this site "comment ça marche" appear immediately at the top right of my screen, so I can read them right away.

Does my new message help you better understand my original message?

Thank you for reading me and see you soon!
0
brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 416 > chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
I always suspect that it's more of a Bluetooth connection than a Wi-Fi connection...
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 > brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
Brupala, I searched the internet for the expression "blue tooth connection" and found that it is a synonym for "bluetooth."

Maybe it was indeed a bluetooth connection. I don’t know how to recognize a bluetooth connection....

When I wanted to connect my bluetooth devices to my computer, I chose the manual setup rather than the automatic one. And it was difficult, so I had to start over several times before I finally succeeded....

But the notification on my PC was different in a different location.

The neighbor's notification was at the bottom right of the screen.

And since the neighbor's blockage, I have seen him several times, but he hasn’t said anything to me or asked anything. He lives on the first floor with his father. I don’t know if they have a box or an internet connection on their mobile.

But since I changed my wifi key, the password for logging into my PC, I have also blocked the bluetooth on my PC. Only the wifi is open, but on a private and home network.

And now, how do I recognize a blue tooth connection from a wifi connection?

Thank you for reading me.
0
brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 416 > chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
In principle, for network connections, we do not receive notifications, unlike Bluetooth connections.
However, a firewall can send them.
0
chateaudeau Posted messages 474 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention   14 > brupala Posted messages 111926 Registration date   Status Membre Last intervention  
 
Hello,

So, in light of my setup and my history,

what is the most serious, in terms of VOLUNTARY connection: ???

1 Wi-Fi connection ???? a Bluetooth connection ??? a firewall connection ????

Thank you.
0