parasites in TNT reception

Question

Hello everyone,

Hello everyone,

the antenna (which is 10 years old, is a "difficult reception of 2.96 meters (and was fully checked and cleaned 6 months ago) is directed towards the Tours transmitter, 80 km away, with a 40 DB amplifier (powered by 5 volts from one of the adapters). All cables are new (19 vact), as well as the TVs, LCD and CRT, experiencing the same problem. There are 6 TVs, comprising 4 CRTs, plus 1 LCD 26 inches and 1 LCD 52 inches.

After the amplifier, which is in the attic 8 meters from the antenna, there is a splitter with two outputs for a circuit of 2 TVs and a circuit of 4 TVs, then each of the two circuits has a 2-output splitter going to 2 TVs and a 4-output splitter for the other 4 TVs (when I say towards TV, I mean towards the TNT adapters if the TV does not have TNT). There is no pre-amplifier between the antenna and the 40 DB amplifier. All connections are made with love. The satellite circuit is completely separate.

When it's working well, it's true that it's perfect, but several times an hour, I experience image freeze and sound dropouts at the same time. It's more pronounced on TF1, NRJ, TMC which I believe are on R1. (?)

I have noticed that the dropouts happen when:

I turn off or turn on a light.

The fridge starts or stops.

I unplug a device from an outlet.

When the dishwasher .....changes program, meaning every 4/5 minutes.

When the washing machine changes program.

When I send a signal with a remote control (turning on a lamp via a remote-controlled socket).

When it rains.

When there is a thunderstorm, the image freezes and the sound continues (I have to change the channel for the image to restart).

When a poorly shielded moped passes by on the street.

When I weld with an arc (using an Inverter welder) in the garage which is 10 meters from the antenna, my wife says it's complete mosaic there.

So we're back with problems like those we had in 1990 with CIBI and analog.

When it gets too annoying, or when I don't want to miss a word of a debate or a film, I switch back to analog (if it's one of the 5 available channels of course) but on the morning of December 1, 2011, how will I handle it? We are forced to adopt a system that is not yet fully operational and we won’t have any other solution since they are cutting off analog.

I know that digital is more sensitive to electrical currents, but isn’t there a solution to this problem? Is the disturbance coming directly from the electrical circuit or from the antenna signal interference?

I took the example of 80 km from Tours, but in the 93 I have the same problem, less often for sure, but I am 10 km from the tower. I also know that I am far from being the only one.

Thank you for your advice.

@+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Configuration: Windows XP Internet Explorer 6.0

Bernorenard · Accepted Answer

Hello friend of the difficult DTT
It's curious about interference; I genuinely believed in the unalterable nature of digital transmission, but that's not the case. Your presentation raises several questions for me
"The antenna cleaned and checked" seems to be partly at fault because you have a weak and therefore alterable signal. Moreover, your installation, amplifiers, splitters, etc., all also act as an "antenna" since they pick up interference
(here I have the analog cable, so the cables run along the facades of the houses, and every now and then a splitter supplies the houses with TV channels. All of this is supposed to be shielded with mandatory grounding of the shields, yet when a poorly electrified moped passes by, I pick up interference even though I don't have an antenna) your problem is similar; you initially have the antenna with a weak signal, and your "pipes" are not sealed, leading to "infiltrations"
So the remedy is to revisit your installation
Your antenna should be new; there's no question about it because it is not suited for the new channels (spectrum of received channels) created by the DTT, hence it receives weaker signals. Next, your amplifiers and splitters must be shielded with metal and have grounded shields (protection from "interference"). It is crucial to understand that receiving DTT is not easy; the signals sent by the transmitters are weak, especially since some multiplexes have reduced emission power due to interference between transmitters. No matter what you're told, that's real. I have the evidence from testimonies of people across France who poorly receive DTT and who find themselves struggling in forums with their new flat-screen TVs that don't work well and are impossible to adjust. The future of TV reception is digital; it is mandatory to update (by installing new equipment) the old antenna installations when the current analog system shuts down, and that will be soon. In any case, we must accept the new rules of digital reception, which tolerate no fault
A little reading to discover the problems and enrich yourself through learning
WWW.TVNT.NET + forum by regions and by transmitters
Cheers and have a good day

louis15 · Answer

Hello,

hello everyone,

Between the amplifier (which I no longer have the reference for, but it's a small adjustable red box from 20 to 40 db bought at Bricomarché meant to be powered by an adapter) and the antenna, there are 7/8 meters and I will add a 1.5-meter mast which will make 4.5 meters of mast.

This cable is relatively far from EDF cables.

I am going to replace the first splitter with 2 outputs that is just after the amplifier with a gold one (lol) specially for HD. I was even thinking of applying a sheet of lead around the branches (splitter) and grounding this lead sheet. What do you think?

I would also like to change the section of the cable (which is still new) between the antenna and the amplifier with a pro 11 DB, but I can't find the F connectors for this cable that is 10.8 mm in diameter. If you have a dealer that has this.

I would also like to put a preamplifier at the very top of the mast, but how many DB and should it be powered by the coaxial to strengthen the signal down to the amplifier.

As for the antenna, I saw 2 models at L'Enchanteur, a Systec for very difficult reception, and another less known brand that has a gain of 15 DB. So no need for a preamplifier. The current antenna is 10 years old, wideband and has difficult reception; it measures 2.96 meters and has 23 elements, and I completely cleaned it last summer.

Thank you for your advice.

@++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

sans filiste · Answer

Take a look at this:

" Beware of GSM emitters (telephony) and others (amateur radio, police, fire services, CB users, Wifi, etc.), too close to the TNT reception antenna, which can interfere with or prevent partial or total reception of TNT TV, as well as industrial and domestic electrical impulse noise (mopeds, household appliances, all kinds of machines, other electronic devices, home automation, computers, power supplies, internet consoles, wireless cameras, EDF high voltage networks, etc...) especially when using a wideband TV amplifier (VHF-UHF), but not limited to that. Observed malfunctions, such as very brief freezing or mosaic effects, can sometimes be cyclical at regular intervals, or not, which suggests a local or relatively close interference. More rarely, malfunctions can be eliminated by changing the location (increasing the distance) of the receiver immersed in a disturbing electromagnetic field. Grounding the shield can also be tested. Mobile phones can also generate reception issues.

Dealing with impulse noise is not always easy; sometimes raising (or replacing) the antenna with a more directive one, or moving it out of the attic or loft, can help eliminate interference. It all depends on the location of the interference source...., the ideal being, of course, to determine the exact origin and address it, which is difficult if the interference is mobile and sporadic... In summary, we try to improve the received power of the useful signal to make it more robust against interference. If the disturbance is "caught" by a poor quality or stripped cable (reduced shield & no outer cover), replace it with a "17" cable. If issues persist, check if the EMC of the interferer is being respected. We can put HF ferrite beads on the cables, but with no guarantee. Some TNT adapter manufacturers equip their products with a special electronic circuit called anti-impulses, but at best they act as an attenuator (which is already not bad) rather than as an impulse 'killer'. If the problem persists, fill out the form at the end of the file "

excerpt. C/c from Zone HD.

Bernorenard · Answer

Hello
also a word for the non-expert: before waging war on sources of interference, one must also protect themselves. I advised our friend to use "shielded" amplification and antenna distribution equipment. Of course, one should not create a "Faraday cage" in the installation of their antennas on the house. Here we are dealing with a case of receiving very weak signals, likely due to an antenna that is not suited for the new TNT channel frequencies (antenna over 10 years old if I read correctly). He is picking up internal interference with his antenna cable installation, so it is necessary to protect the cables, the splitters, and the amplifier. There is professional quality equipment available to the public in the form of plugs and "F" connectors that are well-shielded. It will suffice to connect these shields to a good ground and also to install a new and sufficiently powerful antenna on the roof, and that should solve the issue.
cheers and good luck!

louis15 · Answer

Good evening everyone, thank you for all your kind responses and advice.

Here's a little recap of all your suggestions, picking the best ones,

First of all, I’m going to invest in a preamplified splitter with 15/20 DB. (this will avoid having to use a preamp)

I will put up a 1.5-meter mast.

The section between the antenna and the amplifier will use 17 Vact coax, without making any right-angle bends in the cable.

I will lower the 40 DB amplifier from the attic a little and will use gold F connectors (lol).

The first splitter with 2 outputs (bad spelling) will also be in gold.

I’m going to buy a sheet of lead, which is used for sealing roof windows, to cover all the splitters and the amplifier.

I still need to ground the coax. I was wondering if I ground the big 4-output splitter that serves the 4 main TVs (of the house), would that be good?

I forgot to mention something that is probably my mistake. Since I planned to add a mast last summer, I left 2 meters of coax before the amplifier, which I neatly coiled in 5/6 loops with 3 electrical ties to keep it round, and I’m wondering if that might concentrate the reception of interference???

I'm planning to do this around the 25th, the date when I’ll be going to that house, and I’ll keep you updated. In the meantime, I’ll make my purchases and continue to read your responses.

Thanks to all and @+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

louis15 · Answer

Hello everyone,

I thought of something last night. The cable drop along the mast is very exposed to interference.

If I drill a hole in the plastic cap at the top of the upper mast and let the coax drop down the mast into the attic at the bottom of the lower mast, and also ground the mast, would I gain anything in addition to avoiding ties along the mast? I would also put some silicone to seal the cap at the top of the upper mast.

Is this a mistake on my part, and could it create another problem?

Thanks.

@+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bernorenard · Answer

Hello
If you try too hard, you risk damaging the connection; "F" is sufficient on its own, there's no need to invest in gold. The triple-shielded cable doesn’t have much gain despite the high number of elements; a standard 9-port splitter is sufficient and they’re already expensive enough (+70€), but it’s robust and has appreciable gain. The amplifier is shielded; if it’s plastic, it’s clear that inside you will often find just a power supply, and the amplifier strangely resembles the "F" splitter; the amplifier is inside it and is well shielded. The grounding of your antenna system should be done at a single point and as close as possible to the antenna (think about the lightning that could strike one day); if you follow all these recommendations, your reception should improve and exclude electrical origin parasites.
Hi, I’m at your disposal if necessary.

Bernorenard · Answer

Just one more word: if you pass the cable through the tube, that's good, but be careful that it doesn't get cut over time on the edge of the pipe.
Plug the tube at the top and bottom with silicone or a milk cap + silicone because your pipe might play the organ in windy weather.

gege · Answer

Is putting several stop rings on the cable effective in preventing interference from mopeds... thank you for your response.

Bernorenard · Answer

Hello
it's worth trying because I've noticed that all sorts of interference are rampant when the TNT signal is weak (especially R1). At the end of the analog broadcast in your area (check it out here):
https://www.tousaunumerique.fr/
the CSA has planned to update the power of certain transmitters, we have to believe it because there is no other solution.
bye

louis15 · Answer

Hello everyone,I made a lot of modifications, here’s a summary (underlined parts).The antenna (which is 10 years old), which is a "difficult reception of 2.96 meters with 26 elements (and was completely checked and cleaned 6 months ago) is directed toward the Chissay transmitter, 60 km away, with a preamplifier just below the antenna (I added a 75-ohm cap on the unused VHF output) then a new 17 DB cable to the 30 DB amplifier located in the attic, which has a double output (one side towards the house for 4 TVs and the other towards the garage and terrace for 2 TVs) and therefore I was able to remove a splitter, then a 17 DB cable to the 4-output splitter and then 17 DB to the 52-inch HD LCD. All other cables are new (19 vact), the 4-output splitter and all the F connectors are gold-plated (special HD gold). There are a total of 6 TVs, including 4 cathodic, plus 1 26-inch LCD and 1 52-inch LCD. I raised the mast by 1.5 meters, making it 4 meters in total, so the antenna is 7.5 meters above ground and unobstructed. The mast and the 4-output splitter are connected by a wire to the ground.After the amplifier, which is in the attic 6 meters from the antenna, I have 5 meters to reach the 4-output splitter for the other 4 TVs (when I say towards TV, I mean towards the TNT adapters if the TV does not have TNT). All connections are done with care. The satellite circuit is completely separate.I installed a new electrical panel with a circuit breaker just for the antenna amplifier, a circuit breaker just for the home cinema equipment, the 52-inch LCD, and a circuit breaker for the washing machine and dishwasher. Of course, I tightened the circuit breaker screws very firmly to avoid micro-arcs.And so I still have the same problem:When everything is fine, it’s true that it’s perfect, but several times an hour, I have image freezes and sound cuts at the same time. This is more pronounced on TF1, NRJ, TMC which I believe are on R6 (? ).I noticed that the cuts happen when:I turn on or off a light.The fridge turns on or off.I unplug a device from a power outlet.When the dishwasher.....changes program, which is to say every 4/5 minutes.When the washing machine changes program.When I send a signal with a remote control (turning on a lamp via a remote-controlled socket).When it rains.When there’s a storm, the image stops and the sound continues (I have to change channel for the image to restart).When a poorly shielded moped passes in the street.When I weld with an arc (with an inverter machine) in the garage which is 10 meters from the antenna, my wife tells me it’s complete mosaic.Is the interference coming directly from the electrical circuit or from the antenna signal jamming?Thank you for your advice.

gil · Answer

parasites interference black screen pixelation mosaic:  https://www.jechange.fr/telecom/internet

Parasites in TNT reception

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