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Color profiles are a vast subject that is not so simple...
At the base, there is the screen and its calibration... If you perform the calibration with a probe, it will generate a profile that will be used by the graphics card. It supersedes the one that might have been applied via Windows settings because it is more precise.
There are color separation profiles. These are used in Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, and others to convert the source to the destination. For example, from RGB to CMYK.
And there are printer profiles. These are applied at the time of printing to compensate for the differences in ink between printers (composites). Again, we can push this further by calibrating the printer and defining its profile, and to apply a profile to a printer, we generally use a RIP. This is what happens for high-quality proof prints.
You need to find the right setting for your printer so that it resembles what you will get in a separation print, knowing that office printers do not have the same inks as an offset press (nor the same paper)... and it's not easy! (As settings, you have the print profile and/or the paper profile depending on what the driver can offer you).
To open directly with the overprint preview, try checking the option, then close the document window and finally the Acrobat window.
Under Seven, there is a conflict if you have multiple users. Opening a document directly or opening Acrobat first then the document does not give the same environment. (This forces you to redo the taskbar every time).
To the client, we provide a calibrated printed color proof... This is what the client signs for the approval sample (BAT). Then we give this BAT to the machine and the operator adjusts the machine so that the print closely resembles the paper proof. At this stage, they still have a small margin for adjustment... In certain cases, the client can come for calibration and signs the BAT at the machine output....
This is in traditional printing, because for online printing, it's done as they want and that's it... anyway, you paid in advance.
At the base, there is the screen and its calibration... If you perform the calibration with a probe, it will generate a profile that will be used by the graphics card. It supersedes the one that might have been applied via Windows settings because it is more precise.
There are color separation profiles. These are used in Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, and others to convert the source to the destination. For example, from RGB to CMYK.
And there are printer profiles. These are applied at the time of printing to compensate for the differences in ink between printers (composites). Again, we can push this further by calibrating the printer and defining its profile, and to apply a profile to a printer, we generally use a RIP. This is what happens for high-quality proof prints.
You need to find the right setting for your printer so that it resembles what you will get in a separation print, knowing that office printers do not have the same inks as an offset press (nor the same paper)... and it's not easy! (As settings, you have the print profile and/or the paper profile depending on what the driver can offer you).
To open directly with the overprint preview, try checking the option, then close the document window and finally the Acrobat window.
Under Seven, there is a conflict if you have multiple users. Opening a document directly or opening Acrobat first then the document does not give the same environment. (This forces you to redo the taskbar every time).
To the client, we provide a calibrated printed color proof... This is what the client signs for the approval sample (BAT). Then we give this BAT to the machine and the operator adjusts the machine so that the print closely resembles the paper proof. At this stage, they still have a small margin for adjustment... In certain cases, the client can come for calibration and signs the BAT at the machine output....
This is in traditional printing, because for online printing, it's done as they want and that's it... anyway, you paid in advance.
Every graphic designer should have a paper color swatch to check their colors. It's not a freebie, but it's a good indication of the result obtained when printing. The "Process Color System Guide" from Pantone is a swatch that provides the CMYK distribution of the shades in the swatch. Of course, not all of them are included, but it's a very good approach to extrapolating the dominant color of a nearby shade.
I'm not too keen on providing a JPG image to a client as a proof. Imagine if their screen is absolutely not calibrated... how are you going to explain that to them? Only a color proof can do that... and even a certified proof that requires special material.
A professional printer that can be used for proofing, like the Epson Pro 4900, is equipped with 11 colors. When you print a file in CMYK, it’s the driver that converts the color space to another that the printer understands. The RGB color space is larger than the CMYK color space, so it is entirely possible to reproduce CMYK colors with RGB (whereas the opposite is not always possible). For professional printers, manufacturers offer the option of using a RIP or have software that allows adjustments before printing.
However, the FOGRA39 profile is a color separation profile, meaning it is used to convert from RGB to CMYK. There are other profiles and even custom profiles that you can create yourself in Photoshop and apply in the CS suite via synchronization. However, it's absurd to include a separation profile in a file if it’s already in CMYK... if your file has a cyan area at 30%, in separation, you must also have an area of 30% cyan on paper. This is mandatory since the information is in the file.
But if you include a profile in the CMYK file and that profile is not the same as the one in the RIP at the time of the color separation, the separation will be incorrect and the printed result will also be.
For the graphic designer, the big problem is that unless they are addressing a local printer, they have no certainty that their file will be printed on an offset machine or on a digital press with 8 colors or more... and thus no information on how to prepare the file... Of course the shades will be close (a red is not going to turn into blue), but if you have an exact shade to reproduce, it's not guaranteed...
I'm not too keen on providing a JPG image to a client as a proof. Imagine if their screen is absolutely not calibrated... how are you going to explain that to them? Only a color proof can do that... and even a certified proof that requires special material.
A professional printer that can be used for proofing, like the Epson Pro 4900, is equipped with 11 colors. When you print a file in CMYK, it’s the driver that converts the color space to another that the printer understands. The RGB color space is larger than the CMYK color space, so it is entirely possible to reproduce CMYK colors with RGB (whereas the opposite is not always possible). For professional printers, manufacturers offer the option of using a RIP or have software that allows adjustments before printing.
However, the FOGRA39 profile is a color separation profile, meaning it is used to convert from RGB to CMYK. There are other profiles and even custom profiles that you can create yourself in Photoshop and apply in the CS suite via synchronization. However, it's absurd to include a separation profile in a file if it’s already in CMYK... if your file has a cyan area at 30%, in separation, you must also have an area of 30% cyan on paper. This is mandatory since the information is in the file.
But if you include a profile in the CMYK file and that profile is not the same as the one in the RIP at the time of the color separation, the separation will be incorrect and the printed result will also be.
For the graphic designer, the big problem is that unless they are addressing a local printer, they have no certainty that their file will be printed on an offset machine or on a digital press with 8 colors or more... and thus no information on how to prepare the file... Of course the shades will be close (a red is not going to turn into blue), but if you have an exact shade to reproduce, it's not guaranteed...
Alright...
I had thought about calibrating the screen against the control JPEG obviously and I didn’t mean to say that this could compete with a real proof (which is paid and quite expensive sometimes...). I just imagined this as a "base" to not stray too far from the desired result without getting exactly the same color (and it can control the color on the printer's screen).
So, is it unnecessary to include a profile? Is it enough to set it to CMYK working space?
What surprises me is that I often never have the same display from Illustrator to Acrobat Pro (and the percentages of CMYK vary a bit by the way) even though I simply set it to "optimal quality" and nothing more...
I therefore have a hard time knowing if it’s Illustrator or Acrobat Pro that is "right" about the color closest to what will be printed (although, of course, it will never be the same as on screen, I understand that well).
Should we ignore the display color and only look at whether the percentages in CMYK are those we want?
"For the graphic designer, the big problem is that unless addressing a local printer, he has no certainty that his file will be printed on an offset machine or on a digital press with 8 colors or more... and thus no information on how to prepare the file..."
I don’t really understand how in this specific case where we would reproduce, for example, a green C 60 M 0 Y 98 K 0, we could get a different shade depending on the printers.
Unless the inks are spot colors.
I see more clearly now, thank you and I will try to get a color swatch when possible if indeed, it’s enough to rely on the percentages in CMYK.
I had thought about calibrating the screen against the control JPEG obviously and I didn’t mean to say that this could compete with a real proof (which is paid and quite expensive sometimes...). I just imagined this as a "base" to not stray too far from the desired result without getting exactly the same color (and it can control the color on the printer's screen).
So, is it unnecessary to include a profile? Is it enough to set it to CMYK working space?
What surprises me is that I often never have the same display from Illustrator to Acrobat Pro (and the percentages of CMYK vary a bit by the way) even though I simply set it to "optimal quality" and nothing more...
I therefore have a hard time knowing if it’s Illustrator or Acrobat Pro that is "right" about the color closest to what will be printed (although, of course, it will never be the same as on screen, I understand that well).
Should we ignore the display color and only look at whether the percentages in CMYK are those we want?
"For the graphic designer, the big problem is that unless addressing a local printer, he has no certainty that his file will be printed on an offset machine or on a digital press with 8 colors or more... and thus no information on how to prepare the file..."
I don’t really understand how in this specific case where we would reproduce, for example, a green C 60 M 0 Y 98 K 0, we could get a different shade depending on the printers.
Unless the inks are spot colors.
I see more clearly now, thank you and I will try to get a color swatch when possible if indeed, it’s enough to rely on the percentages in CMYK.
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So if I understand correctly, no display is "false" nor any print is "wrong."
We just need to agree with the printer so that the result matches what is on screen.
Maybe if I print exactly the same document with a professional printer, I'll get the colors I want?
My client is far away and only wants to communicate via email, which doesn't make things easier.
I think I'll provide him with a control jpeg that he can give to the printer of his choice (which hasn't been defined yet...) to show him the expected result.
Do you think this is a good solution? I've seen that this method is sometimes used.
One last thing because I like to learn, when I fiddled with Acrobat Pro and the simulation profiles, I saw my printer among them. When I clicked on it, my color control display switched to RGB instead of the usual CMYK of the Fogra39 simulation profile. Is it possible to have an "RGB printer" and that this is the source of the screen/print difference?
I'm having trouble understanding this.
Thank you for your patience.