Online Shopping and Identity Verification
Alt974
-
No -
No -
Hello everyone!
I just placed an order on the website www.materiel.net for about €370. However, I received an email asking me to provide a photocopy of my identity card and proof of address!
I must admit that this procedure worries me quite a bit! I have already placed orders online before, but it's the first time I've been asked for such information.
Isn't this process a possible attempt at fraud, or is it an additional security measure?
I would like to hear internet users' opinions on this process! Have people ordered from this site, and were they also asked for these supporting documents?!
Thank you, I am waiting for comments to validate my order!
I just placed an order on the website www.materiel.net for about €370. However, I received an email asking me to provide a photocopy of my identity card and proof of address!
I must admit that this procedure worries me quite a bit! I have already placed orders online before, but it's the first time I've been asked for such information.
Isn't this process a possible attempt at fraud, or is it an additional security measure?
I would like to hear internet users' opinions on this process! Have people ordered from this site, and were they also asked for these supporting documents?!
Thank you, I am waiting for comments to validate my order!
23 réponses
- 1
- 2
Suivant
This is an increasingly common and completely scandalous practice:
It involves unnecessary data collection when there are other ways to combat fraud (3D secure or Verified Visa).
You should know that what travels by email is absolutely not secure, like a postcard without an envelope.
Furthermore, your personal data will be retained by the merchant, which is very questionable.
But don't worry, you'll receive your product. In the meantime, you'll have been added to 15 spam lists and your personal information will be put into databases to be sold.
Here's a little article from Reflets on this: http://reflets.info/bhv-et-fia-net-le-commerce-electronique-du-futur-sur-le-minitel-2-0/
It involves unnecessary data collection when there are other ways to combat fraud (3D secure or Verified Visa).
You should know that what travels by email is absolutely not secure, like a postcard without an envelope.
Furthermore, your personal data will be retained by the merchant, which is very questionable.
But don't worry, you'll receive your product. In the meantime, you'll have been added to 15 spam lists and your personal information will be put into databases to be sold.
Here's a little article from Reflets on this: http://reflets.info/bhv-et-fia-net-le-commerce-electronique-du-futur-sur-le-minitel-2-0/
I also just made a fairly substantial purchase on Rue du Commerce, and I was asked to provide a photocopy of my ID card and the credit card with which the payment was made, showing the first four and the last two digits on the front while hiding the cryptogram on the back. After checking with my banker, it's becoming more and more common, and it's a security measure as well. Given that the useful numbers are hidden, our card cannot be exploited if it falls into the wrong hands.
Ledore, thank you for your comment. I completely agree with you, this practice is totally outrageous. French e-merchants are not the only ones falling prey to fraud, but France is, to date, the only country where I have faced this kind of request. Yes, companies protect themselves, but where is the consumer protection in all this? Nowadays, information such as addresses and personal details can easily be used for frauds far worse than a charge on a credit card... it may be time for France to change its laws in this area, because for now, customers are completely at the mercy of companies.
Here is what I replied to RueDesEmmerdes.com after an order exceeding 300 euros:
Hello,
I have previously placed an order with RueDuCommerce.com without this unacceptable and illegal demand for personal identification documents. These identity documents should not circulate on the internet, let alone via email.
As a security measure and because a credit card payment verification is not justifiable, I refuse to send you my personal identification documents. Only a local service near my home can verify my good faith.
I kindly ask you to cancel my order no. xxxxxx and refund me as soon as possible if you are unable to send it to me.
Best regards,
L.
Such services, like FIANET, do nothing but harm commerce: sending these documents does not prove that I am the right person but rather that I am in possession of these documents...
Even AIRFRANCE does not perform such checks; upon boarding, only a visual inspection of your papers is carried out to verify your identity: no photocopying and certainly no copying of your credit card.
Hello,
I have previously placed an order with RueDuCommerce.com without this unacceptable and illegal demand for personal identification documents. These identity documents should not circulate on the internet, let alone via email.
As a security measure and because a credit card payment verification is not justifiable, I refuse to send you my personal identification documents. Only a local service near my home can verify my good faith.
I kindly ask you to cancel my order no. xxxxxx and refund me as soon as possible if you are unable to send it to me.
Best regards,
L.
Such services, like FIANET, do nothing but harm commerce: sending these documents does not prove that I am the right person but rather that I am in possession of these documents...
Even AIRFRANCE does not perform such checks; upon boarding, only a visual inspection of your papers is carried out to verify your identity: no photocopying and certainly no copying of your credit card.
I just had the same unfortunate experience with the website Boulanger.fr.
I refused to provide my documents. Into whose hands will they fall? For how many years will they be stored, and what guarantee do I have that they won't be used for commercial purposes or less savory reasons, like identity theft, for example?
I offered to show the documents when picking up my purchase (a TV) in-store, but that was refused. Thank you FIANET! Now I just need to know when I'll be refunded!
I refused to provide my documents. Into whose hands will they fall? For how many years will they be stored, and what guarantee do I have that they won't be used for commercial purposes or less savory reasons, like identity theft, for example?
I offered to show the documents when picking up my purchase (a TV) in-store, but that was refused. Thank you FIANET! Now I just need to know when I'll be refunded!
The argument for CB authentication is nonsense.
In the case of rueducommerce, CB payment does not use 3D secure.
It would still be simpler than asking for an ID!
The text at the bottom of the rueducommerce email clearly states that this information may be transmitted abroad, so the CNIL is out...
*The information requested is necessary for Rue du Commerce and its service providers located inside and outside the European Union, in order to process your order or to provide you with the services you have opted for. In accordance with French law "Informatique & Libertés" no. 78-17 of January 6, 1978, you may at any time request access, modification, rectification or deletion of your personal information for legitimate reasons by writing to Rue du Commerce, Marketing Service - 44/50 avenue du Capitaine Glarner - 93585 Saint-Ouen Cedex.
In the case of rueducommerce, CB payment does not use 3D secure.
It would still be simpler than asking for an ID!
The text at the bottom of the rueducommerce email clearly states that this information may be transmitted abroad, so the CNIL is out...
*The information requested is necessary for Rue du Commerce and its service providers located inside and outside the European Union, in order to process your order or to provide you with the services you have opted for. In accordance with French law "Informatique & Libertés" no. 78-17 of January 6, 1978, you may at any time request access, modification, rectification or deletion of your personal information for legitimate reasons by writing to Rue du Commerce, Marketing Service - 44/50 avenue du Capitaine Glarner - 93585 Saint-Ouen Cedex.
Hello,
I have read many of your comments and I find them very reasonable because we cannot guarantee 100% that this information will fall into the right hands. From the consumer's perspective, such a procedure could appear fraudulent and illegal, but from the merchant's viewpoint, requiring supporting documents is legitimate for transactions deemed at high risk of being fraudulent and can prevent many transactions with stolen credit cards and chargebacks in the future. For me, I believe that both positions are valid, and that the consumer must protect their identity while the merchant must protect both the consumer and not allow themselves to be deceived or expose their business to losing money.
I have read many of your comments and I find them very reasonable because we cannot guarantee 100% that this information will fall into the right hands. From the consumer's perspective, such a procedure could appear fraudulent and illegal, but from the merchant's viewpoint, requiring supporting documents is legitimate for transactions deemed at high risk of being fraudulent and can prevent many transactions with stolen credit cards and chargebacks in the future. For me, I believe that both positions are valid, and that the consumer must protect their identity while the merchant must protect both the consumer and not allow themselves to be deceived or expose their business to losing money.
I found a simple solution: check the general terms and conditions, usually linked at the bottom of the page.
The solutions for verifying identity, such as an ID card + bank statement or crossed check, are in my opinion insufficient and lengthy. Furthermore, if I understand correctly, if you refuse, you're entered into a database... Yay, they’ll keep asking you for it! If you've paid for a delivery in 2 days and have to send your documents by mail, look for the mistake!
As mentioned earlier, creating a false identity or using a stolen credit card and ID is apparently fine with them! Yay... Everything's great!
Wouldn't it be smarter to remove this control for purchases:
1. Through PayPal: because you validate with a password!
2. When the order is sent to the credit card address!!! And when, on top of that, the person has been a customer for months or years!
3. If the person agrees to show their ID to the delivery person: that would really be WAY too simple for them... Well, maybe there are no delivery people anymore? Just go with the postal worker!
4. If they're too scared: accept bank transfers and there you go, it's secure!
5. The 3D secure (well, we can have our phone stolen...)
Lol
The solutions for verifying identity, such as an ID card + bank statement or crossed check, are in my opinion insufficient and lengthy. Furthermore, if I understand correctly, if you refuse, you're entered into a database... Yay, they’ll keep asking you for it! If you've paid for a delivery in 2 days and have to send your documents by mail, look for the mistake!
As mentioned earlier, creating a false identity or using a stolen credit card and ID is apparently fine with them! Yay... Everything's great!
Wouldn't it be smarter to remove this control for purchases:
1. Through PayPal: because you validate with a password!
2. When the order is sent to the credit card address!!! And when, on top of that, the person has been a customer for months or years!
3. If the person agrees to show their ID to the delivery person: that would really be WAY too simple for them... Well, maybe there are no delivery people anymore? Just go with the postal worker!
4. If they're too scared: accept bank transfers and there you go, it's secure!
5. The 3D secure (well, we can have our phone stolen...)
Lol
Hello everyone,
The request for an ID card and proof of address dated less than two months ago is not a scam.
This is a normal procedure to combat credit card fraud (such as stolen cards, for example)... it is not necessary to steal a card, just copying the numbers from the card allows one to place an order online.
It is normal for merchants to ask for these documents if the orders exceed 100 euros... it is a standard procedure.
The request for an ID card and proof of address dated less than two months ago is not a scam.
This is a normal procedure to combat credit card fraud (such as stolen cards, for example)... it is not necessary to steal a card, just copying the numbers from the card allows one to place an order online.
It is normal for merchants to ask for these documents if the orders exceed 100 euros... it is a standard procedure.
Since the amount is starting to get significant, that's why. There are plenty of buying sites that ask for this like esoph, mistergoodeal...
Can MATERIEL.NET request the user to provide proof of identity and residence after the fact?
This requirement, aside from being akin to an identity check reserved for certain authorized professions, is only formulated by email after the order. The contract was definitively formed upon acceptance of the order without such a request for information being issued during the validation process. Consequently, this request made after validation cannot invalidate the sale, which became perfect upon validation, nor can it lead to a suspension or refusal of delivery.
However, this practice may be understandable in order to prevent fraudulent orders. Nevertheless, it should not occur after the order has been validated. It is therefore MATERIEL.NET's responsibility to collect this information during the process and, in any case, before the user validates the order.
This procedure by MATERIEL.NET is all the more unacceptable as it occurs after the user has validated their order and at that moment the product may no longer be available since MATERIEL.NET does not reserve it while waiting for the collection of information.
The availability announced by MATERIEL.NET at the time of the order therefore has no value.
Therefore, demand delivery without any further formalities.
This requirement, aside from being akin to an identity check reserved for certain authorized professions, is only formulated by email after the order. The contract was definitively formed upon acceptance of the order without such a request for information being issued during the validation process. Consequently, this request made after validation cannot invalidate the sale, which became perfect upon validation, nor can it lead to a suspension or refusal of delivery.
However, this practice may be understandable in order to prevent fraudulent orders. Nevertheless, it should not occur after the order has been validated. It is therefore MATERIEL.NET's responsibility to collect this information during the process and, in any case, before the user validates the order.
This procedure by MATERIEL.NET is all the more unacceptable as it occurs after the user has validated their order and at that moment the product may no longer be available since MATERIEL.NET does not reserve it while waiting for the collection of information.
The availability announced by MATERIEL.NET at the time of the order therefore has no value.
Therefore, demand delivery without any further formalities.
you are wrong. Any merchant can refuse a payment method if they deem it risky. Any cashier at the supermarket can ask you to show an ID.
A website can only collect the information that the internet user is willing to provide.
The refusal of sale is only allowed under certain conditions. Having a doubt about the payment is one of them.
Source: fraud prevention.
A neighborhood merchant can even refuse a check if you live in another region.
Source: France 2 newspaper this week.
A website can only collect the information that the internet user is willing to provide.
The refusal of sale is only allowed under certain conditions. Having a doubt about the payment is one of them.
Source: fraud prevention.
A neighborhood merchant can even refuse a check if you live in another region.
Source: France 2 newspaper this week.
Hello,
This morning, I placed an order for €163.75 on modz.fr, which regularly sends me ads to my email. I requested "express" delivery (charged at €13) because I might not be at the delivery address by the end of the week.
I paid by Visa card, needless to say that my account is funded!
The order is recorded by the site, I am eagerly looking forward to receiving it, then, by chance, I opened my inbox again early this afternoon to learn that the site is asking for proof of address: I eventually found an EDF bill in my wife's name (with difficulty since I had started gathering a bunch of "paperwork" in my country house 250 km away), and scanned the said bill in response to modz: my response has been read, but since then there have been no updates!
My wife and I were counting on receiving this delivery before going on vacation: today, we are not so sure anymore and the €13 will have been paid in vain.
This is the first time since I have been shopping online that I have encountered such a problem. I don’t recall seeing any warning before placing the order about a potential request for documents.
I specify that I have had a stable job for a long time (teacher, national education), I believe that if my fears are confirmed, modz.fr will be among the "undesirable" and I will not hesitate to ask my students in management what they think of these business practices.
All this is untimely, deeply unpleasant, to say the least.
This morning, I placed an order for €163.75 on modz.fr, which regularly sends me ads to my email. I requested "express" delivery (charged at €13) because I might not be at the delivery address by the end of the week.
I paid by Visa card, needless to say that my account is funded!
The order is recorded by the site, I am eagerly looking forward to receiving it, then, by chance, I opened my inbox again early this afternoon to learn that the site is asking for proof of address: I eventually found an EDF bill in my wife's name (with difficulty since I had started gathering a bunch of "paperwork" in my country house 250 km away), and scanned the said bill in response to modz: my response has been read, but since then there have been no updates!
My wife and I were counting on receiving this delivery before going on vacation: today, we are not so sure anymore and the €13 will have been paid in vain.
This is the first time since I have been shopping online that I have encountered such a problem. I don’t recall seeing any warning before placing the order about a potential request for documents.
I specify that I have had a stable job for a long time (teacher, national education), I believe that if my fears are confirmed, modz.fr will be among the "undesirable" and I will not hesitate to ask my students in management what they think of these business practices.
All this is untimely, deeply unpleasant, to say the least.
These checks are quite normal.
I am an entrepreneur and have been selling online for 4 years. Thus, I have several websites for women and I also require identity verification for all credit card payments over 100€ for a simple and good reason. Card payments are not secure for the merchant.
In other words, if you have insurance against theft on your card and we, merchants, also have insurance on our online payment contract, it turns out that if a purchase is made using a stolen card, it is enough for the cardholder to declare to their bank that they do not recognize the purchase for us to be debited.
As a result, we receive a payment = we send a package. The thief receives the package. The cardholder is refunded by debiting us, and we lose the merchandise.
Merchants do not have knowledge of the card numbers; you just need to show the name on the card + the name on the ID to prove that you made the purchase.
In this situation, banks profit because they charge insurance on both sides and do not take responsibility in case of problems.
Certainly, this may be displeasing, which is understandable, but for my part, anyone refusing to prove their identity will have their order canceled because unlike large companies like Cdiscount, I cannot afford to be regularly defrauded of 200€ worth of goods.
I am an entrepreneur and have been selling online for 4 years. Thus, I have several websites for women and I also require identity verification for all credit card payments over 100€ for a simple and good reason. Card payments are not secure for the merchant.
In other words, if you have insurance against theft on your card and we, merchants, also have insurance on our online payment contract, it turns out that if a purchase is made using a stolen card, it is enough for the cardholder to declare to their bank that they do not recognize the purchase for us to be debited.
As a result, we receive a payment = we send a package. The thief receives the package. The cardholder is refunded by debiting us, and we lose the merchandise.
Merchants do not have knowledge of the card numbers; you just need to show the name on the card + the name on the ID to prove that you made the purchase.
In this situation, banks profit because they charge insurance on both sides and do not take responsibility in case of problems.
Certainly, this may be displeasing, which is understandable, but for my part, anyone refusing to prove their identity will have their order canceled because unlike large companies like Cdiscount, I cannot afford to be regularly defrauded of 200€ worth of goods.
Hi, I ordered 40 euros worth of parts from Oscaro a week ago.
The order is confirmed and my account has been debited. So I'm waiting for some news, but nothing.
I decided to call them to find out.
They told me they are waiting for my crossed check because they sent me an email.
I didn't receive it. So I did well to call them.
This is the last time I order from them. I'll go somewhere else next time.
The order is confirmed and my account has been debited. So I'm waiting for some news, but nothing.
I decided to call them to find out.
They told me they are waiting for my crossed check because they sent me an email.
I didn't receive it. So I did well to call them.
This is the last time I order from them. I'll go somewhere else next time.
Hello everyone,
A few months ago, I purchased a laptop on "Rueducommerce" (worth €400).
The order went smoothly, but I received an email just a few minutes after paying, asking me to send a proof of identity (like a national identity card) as well as a "scan" of my credit card (even though I paid via Paypal), masking the numbers and the security code.
I immediately called "Rueducommerce" to make sure that this email was indeed from them, and the person I spoke with confirmed it.
Therefore, I proceeded to send my supporting documents and received my laptop a few days later. I had the same doubts as you about this kind of process, but since the numbers are masked (caution: it's better to cover them with colored tape rather than "blurring" them with software, as blurring can be altered), there's no problem. I’m a very cautious person (with all the scams that exist nowadays), and I regularly check my accounts, and so far, I haven't had any issues.
It's true that the procedure is unusual, but it's no more dangerous than providing bank details over the phone or the internet (nothing assures us that every transaction is completely secure, the little padlock is no longer enough), or even entering your PIN at an ATM (with all the "tricks" invented to steal confidential codes).
You hand over your identity card (when paying by check) or your bank card to a store or supermarket cashier, but not to an e-commerce site? It's the same thing; the cashier could also be ill-intentioned (it just takes a good memory and simply turning the card over).
Afterwards, I wouldn't do it for just any site, but for my part, "Rueducommerce" is a reliable French site with thousands of customers.
A few months ago, I purchased a laptop on "Rueducommerce" (worth €400).
The order went smoothly, but I received an email just a few minutes after paying, asking me to send a proof of identity (like a national identity card) as well as a "scan" of my credit card (even though I paid via Paypal), masking the numbers and the security code.
I immediately called "Rueducommerce" to make sure that this email was indeed from them, and the person I spoke with confirmed it.
Therefore, I proceeded to send my supporting documents and received my laptop a few days later. I had the same doubts as you about this kind of process, but since the numbers are masked (caution: it's better to cover them with colored tape rather than "blurring" them with software, as blurring can be altered), there's no problem. I’m a very cautious person (with all the scams that exist nowadays), and I regularly check my accounts, and so far, I haven't had any issues.
It's true that the procedure is unusual, but it's no more dangerous than providing bank details over the phone or the internet (nothing assures us that every transaction is completely secure, the little padlock is no longer enough), or even entering your PIN at an ATM (with all the "tricks" invented to steal confidential codes).
You hand over your identity card (when paying by check) or your bank card to a store or supermarket cashier, but not to an e-commerce site? It's the same thing; the cashier could also be ill-intentioned (it just takes a good memory and simply turning the card over).
Afterwards, I wouldn't do it for just any site, but for my part, "Rueducommerce" is a reliable French site with thousands of customers.
Hi Tribalspeed, I don't completely agree with you... giving your ID card to a cashier is not the same thing - the cashier might have a good memory but at least if something happens you can more or less trace where it came from and the distribution capacity will be more or less limited. Whereas if the company keeps your information (address, civil status, card number...) and its database is compromised, your information can end up all over the world, used by who knows who for who knows what. French consumers should reject these kinds of practices (instead of letting companies normalize them) and try to change the law in this area.
And how will you know it comes from the cashier? It's your word against hers. Especially since she won't use it the minute she records your numbers. By the time she uses your numbers, you could have already shared them with other people.
It's true that this "identity verification" practice is a bit "strange," but since I've done it, I haven't had any issues.
And in hindsight, I think it's not such a bad system; it actually prevents purchases with a credit card or stolen numbers (a credit card number can be bought for a ridiculously low price these days).
However, it's true that you need to take precautions when you're asked for this kind of "proof":
- Make sure the site is reliable
- Avoid software "blurring" (too easy to make it clear)
- And above all, check that the request comes from the site where you made your purchase, and not from a SPAM.
And when you talk about a breached database, any company can have its database breached, even your own bank. Especially since some sites (example: Priceminister, Cdiscount, or Amazon) keep your banking information without asking you.
"mOka": I sent a phone bill.
It's true that this "identity verification" practice is a bit "strange," but since I've done it, I haven't had any issues.
And in hindsight, I think it's not such a bad system; it actually prevents purchases with a credit card or stolen numbers (a credit card number can be bought for a ridiculously low price these days).
However, it's true that you need to take precautions when you're asked for this kind of "proof":
- Make sure the site is reliable
- Avoid software "blurring" (too easy to make it clear)
- And above all, check that the request comes from the site where you made your purchase, and not from a SPAM.
And when you talk about a breached database, any company can have its database breached, even your own bank. Especially since some sites (example: Priceminister, Cdiscount, or Amazon) keep your banking information without asking you.
"mOka": I sent a phone bill.
I placed an order for 1124 euros on Amazon by credit card.
Twenty minutes after my order, I received an email requesting a lot of information and bank documentation.
Following that email, I didn't respond, thinking my order was canceled, especially since I no longer have access to my Amazon account...
Then two days later, I received an email from Amazon saying that delivery is scheduled for Monday...
I don't understand anything, so I sent an email to customer service to find out where my order is, and I'm waiting for their response...
On French sites with 3D Secure, they send a text message to the phone; it's a much simpler system.
They do everything to complicate our lives by asking for tons of paperwork, etc...
Yet they pay for insurance for this!!
So they should stop harassing us all the time.
Liberty, equality, fraternity... or where is it???
Twenty minutes after my order, I received an email requesting a lot of information and bank documentation.
Following that email, I didn't respond, thinking my order was canceled, especially since I no longer have access to my Amazon account...
Then two days later, I received an email from Amazon saying that delivery is scheduled for Monday...
I don't understand anything, so I sent an email to customer service to find out where my order is, and I'm waiting for their response...
On French sites with 3D Secure, they send a text message to the phone; it's a much simpler system.
They do everything to complicate our lives by asking for tons of paperwork, etc...
Yet they pay for insurance for this!!
So they should stop harassing us all the time.
Liberty, equality, fraternity... or where is it???
The same goes for LDLC, they asked me for proof of residence + identity.
I'm not a fan but oh well. What I buy from them, I haven't found absolutely anywhere else, except on 2 sites whose reliability is probably very far from LDLC.
I just hope they will accept my proof of residence which is 6 years old; living at my parents' place, I don't have anything else... (I don't believe it, so I hope we can find a hassle-free solution).
I'm not a fan but oh well. What I buy from them, I haven't found absolutely anywhere else, except on 2 sites whose reliability is probably very far from LDLC.
I just hope they will accept my proof of residence which is 6 years old; living at my parents' place, I don't have anything else... (I don't believe it, so I hope we can find a hassle-free solution).
In fact, this is a very common practice, and it is actually widely used by FIANET itself, which poses no risk to the client; on the contrary: it ensures that the person using the credit card is indeed the official holder. In other words, if your credit card had been stolen to make a purchase on an online site, you would have been quite happy that such a control had been carried out: it would have prevented the thief from charging your credit card! The documents you provide in this context are legally required to be deleted within the legal deadlines.
Have you ever thought about the risks of paying over the phone by giving your credit card details (front and back…) to a sales advisor whom you do not know at all? Therein lies a risk. But in your case... none :-)
Have you ever thought about the risks of paying over the phone by giving your credit card details (front and back…) to a sales advisor whom you do not know at all? Therein lies a risk. But in your case... none :-)
Small correction when you say that the requested documents are destroyed within the legal deadlines, that may be true (in that case, what are the legal deadlines?) and then I ordered from the FNAC.com site which asked me for the same thing and upon closer inspection they clearly state that these documents are transmitted to their partners probably via FIA NET to supposedly authenticate this transaction as well as for future ones, which I could understand if it didn't pose an ethical and confidentiality problem for me especially since my VISA card uses 3D SECURE which allows sending a text message to the buyer with a unique code which secures the transaction. Unless a fraudster has my credit card, my mobile phone, and my identity card, in which case in my great naivety I would not have noticed it and would not have made an opposition or filed a complaint for the theft of my identity papers (which is legal and authorized contrary to what some police stations may say). So I sincerely hope they will stop this kind of practice otherwise I will no longer buy from them...
Cost of the scan of a fake identity card: €5
Price of the fake proof of residence: €5
€10 is enough to get a new identity online... All this to say that fraudsters using stolen credit cards have no trouble circumventing the Fia Net system.
The losers are therefore the merchant site (which is also responsible) and the customer!
In general, 9 out of 10 customers do not place another order on a site that uses Fia Net (Survey on hardware.fr)
Price of the fake proof of residence: €5
€10 is enough to get a new identity online... All this to say that fraudsters using stolen credit cards have no trouble circumventing the Fia Net system.
The losers are therefore the merchant site (which is also responsible) and the customer!
In general, 9 out of 10 customers do not place another order on a site that uses Fia Net (Survey on hardware.fr)
I am in the same situation as you; after a first order with a substantial amount exceeding a hundred euros, matériel.net asked me to prove my identity regarding the use of my credit card.
A friend who runs an e-commerce business, and who cannot afford to miss out on income due to a fraudulent purchase, makes a point of verifying the authenticity of the buyer's information as soon as he has doubts about the person. Behind this practice, which he may use somewhat abusively in my opinion, he remains nevertheless within his strict rights.
Materiel.net also clearly specifies the guarantee of debit upon the shipment of the order and not upon validation by the buyer: in my case, there has been no money movement on my credit card for the amount of my order since the validation: materiel.net is not engaging in illegal practices (for the moment!) since the item does not yet belong to me.
It is true that, as others have said, this could be seen as identity theft, but one must also understand the e-commerce merchants who are not reimbursed for goods purchased fraudulently, but whose true cardholder is refunded by the bank (debit cancellation).
A friend who runs an e-commerce business, and who cannot afford to miss out on income due to a fraudulent purchase, makes a point of verifying the authenticity of the buyer's information as soon as he has doubts about the person. Behind this practice, which he may use somewhat abusively in my opinion, he remains nevertheless within his strict rights.
Materiel.net also clearly specifies the guarantee of debit upon the shipment of the order and not upon validation by the buyer: in my case, there has been no money movement on my credit card for the amount of my order since the validation: materiel.net is not engaging in illegal practices (for the moment!) since the item does not yet belong to me.
It is true that, as others have said, this could be seen as identity theft, but one must also understand the e-commerce merchants who are not reimbursed for goods purchased fraudulently, but whose true cardholder is refunded by the bank (debit cancellation).
Stop saying nonsense that the request for proof is illegal and that paying by credit card is enough. Paying by credit card is not sufficient at all and does not protect the merchant in any way. Nowadays, the cardholder can dispute the charge with their bank without having to justify anything, and who pays afterwards? The merchant.
Therefore, it is perfectly normal that after a payment the merchant can ask you for proof to validate the order.
Request for proof, legal or not legal?
Directive from the European Commission on data protection (All European CNILs):
Identity theft and fraudulent use of credit cards are more common in online commerce (it is indeed not necessary to enter the card code as in a physical store). Therefore, the merchant must protect themselves against these frauds, both in their interest and in that of their customers. Indeed, in case of a dispute by the cardholder after the transaction, the merchant will be charged by their bank the amount they had received.
Based on statistical elements (for example, the average cart amount on the site) and based on the details on the customer's order form (date and time, amount, type of product, address, etc.), the merchant will define an acceptable level of risk or not.
If the transaction is considered low risk, payment and delivery will proceed as normal.
On the other hand, if the transaction is deemed risky by the merchant, they can request proof from the customer. If the customer fails to present this proof, the merchant may cancel the order.
This proof can be requested before or after the online payment.
Guarantee for the online merchant:
To ensure the identity of the credit card holder, the merchant may request a proof of identity and/or proof of residence.
On the other hand, they cannot request a bank statement or a photocopy of the credit card or bank account details.
Only the merchant's services responsible for payments or fraud prevention should have access to these documents. They cannot use them for other purposes or retain them for more than six months.
In conclusion, the merchant has the right to protect themselves against any fraud, and soon a new authentication solution will occur where the payer will no longer be able to tell their bank "I didn’t make that purchase." It will suffice via the webcam to take a photo on the merchant's site of your face, accompanied by your identity card and the order number with the name of the merchant site.
I find this normal, and I was asked for proof, which I provided without issue. Now, certainly not on just any website, but it's easy to check if a website is legal and has existed for a long time. For example, a website with a green bar, I have nothing to fear ;)
Therefore, it is perfectly normal that after a payment the merchant can ask you for proof to validate the order.
Request for proof, legal or not legal?
Directive from the European Commission on data protection (All European CNILs):
Identity theft and fraudulent use of credit cards are more common in online commerce (it is indeed not necessary to enter the card code as in a physical store). Therefore, the merchant must protect themselves against these frauds, both in their interest and in that of their customers. Indeed, in case of a dispute by the cardholder after the transaction, the merchant will be charged by their bank the amount they had received.
Based on statistical elements (for example, the average cart amount on the site) and based on the details on the customer's order form (date and time, amount, type of product, address, etc.), the merchant will define an acceptable level of risk or not.
If the transaction is considered low risk, payment and delivery will proceed as normal.
On the other hand, if the transaction is deemed risky by the merchant, they can request proof from the customer. If the customer fails to present this proof, the merchant may cancel the order.
This proof can be requested before or after the online payment.
Guarantee for the online merchant:
To ensure the identity of the credit card holder, the merchant may request a proof of identity and/or proof of residence.
On the other hand, they cannot request a bank statement or a photocopy of the credit card or bank account details.
Only the merchant's services responsible for payments or fraud prevention should have access to these documents. They cannot use them for other purposes or retain them for more than six months.
In conclusion, the merchant has the right to protect themselves against any fraud, and soon a new authentication solution will occur where the payer will no longer be able to tell their bank "I didn’t make that purchase." It will suffice via the webcam to take a photo on the merchant's site of your face, accompanied by your identity card and the order number with the name of the merchant site.
I find this normal, and I was asked for proof, which I provided without issue. Now, certainly not on just any website, but it's easy to check if a website is legal and has existed for a long time. For example, a website with a green bar, I have nothing to fear ;)
It's almost laughable when you know the reputation for honesty of certain online retailers, especially regarding warranties, or of FIA-NET which is under investigation by the CIL.
https://www.linformaticien.com/actualites/id/25008/la-cnil-ouvre-une-enquete-sur-fia-net.aspx
If fraud is so frequent, it's the banks' responsibility who have never done what is necessary to ensure we have maximum security when purchasing online. It's so easy to hide behind accusations that the cardholder is not paying attention to what they are doing.
As for the sites, I come back to this: they should also ensure that data cannot be stolen by any hacker, good or bad. And, in any case, given their massive profits, they're less likely to go bankrupt than we are.
Amazon is considered a "safe" site; that hasn’t prevented it from having an issue with potentially stolen data.
Here, again, something very interesting to read:
https://www.lefigaro.fr/conso/2016/01/09/05007-20160109ARTFIG00008-la-moitie-des-sites-d-e-commerce-laxiste-sur-la-securite-des-donnees.php
By the way, do you have proof that this request for justification is legal? A law, a decree? I'm waiting...
https://www.linformaticien.com/actualites/id/25008/la-cnil-ouvre-une-enquete-sur-fia-net.aspx
If fraud is so frequent, it's the banks' responsibility who have never done what is necessary to ensure we have maximum security when purchasing online. It's so easy to hide behind accusations that the cardholder is not paying attention to what they are doing.
As for the sites, I come back to this: they should also ensure that data cannot be stolen by any hacker, good or bad. And, in any case, given their massive profits, they're less likely to go bankrupt than we are.
Amazon is considered a "safe" site; that hasn’t prevented it from having an issue with potentially stolen data.
Here, again, something very interesting to read:
https://www.lefigaro.fr/conso/2016/01/09/05007-20160109ARTFIG00008-la-moitie-des-sites-d-e-commerce-laxiste-sur-la-securite-des-donnees.php
By the way, do you have proof that this request for justification is legal? A law, a decree? I'm waiting...
I had exactly the same problem as you on Amazon for an amount of €1200, and after the order [28/04/16], I received an email requesting proof of address and identity, and this morning I received an email saying that the order is postponed to 2 days later [03/04/16]. So I would like to know if with each passing day the order will take longer. PS: I have not sent those documents.
Hello,
I had this mishap with Optical Discount... of course, the order was charged immediately, over 300 euros with an SMS code for the card...
I've never had this issue of sending an ID and proof of address... where are we headed!
And the icing on the cake is that if I hadn't called, I would never have been informed. Supposedly I would have received an email, but nothing at all! Not even in the spam! I find this practice disgraceful! No problem with charging, but when it comes to sending the package, it’s a no!
Despite my complaint by phone and email, I am still not refunded ????????????
Stay away from this site!
I had this mishap with Optical Discount... of course, the order was charged immediately, over 300 euros with an SMS code for the card...
I've never had this issue of sending an ID and proof of address... where are we headed!
And the icing on the cake is that if I hadn't called, I would never have been informed. Supposedly I would have received an email, but nothing at all! Not even in the spam! I find this practice disgraceful! No problem with charging, but when it comes to sending the package, it’s a no!
Despite my complaint by phone and email, I am still not refunded ????????????
Stay away from this site!
- 1
- 2
Suivant
The question is whether you need to provide documents proving that it is indeed "you" who is the author of an order, that the card used is truly yours; it is in your best interest to provide these documents.
Why?
Because the merchant, whether large, small, or medium, wants to ensure that there is no fraud involving the credit card. On the Darknet, lists of cards obtained through hacking are exchanged for very little money, not only across France but also throughout Europe and the world.
Thus, “your” card could be among them if you have not been careful during your usage, like not paying attention at a gas station or when withdrawing cash from a street ATM, where you leave the imprint of your card using the old technique.
Merchants who request such things are "vigilant"; they are fighting against fraud. Disputed files are then forwarded to law enforcement for investigation and cross-referencing with other sites.
What types of documents can we provide?
Front and back of a national identity card, showing your name and address.
An internet service provider bill (your name and address must be visible).
An EDF bill or similar.
If the file is clear, your order will be processed; however, if there are issues with the file, an investigation will be triggered due to merchants concerned about the quality of exchanges between customers and merchants.
The merchant must also undergo verification on your part. See if you can find the company's contact details on "Societé.com" or infogreffe.fr.
If the site you frequent does not provide the registry information in the "Legal Information," do not venture further. Research before making your purchase.
Old websites generally have everything a customer needs to validate their choice. They have a reputation.
Merchants have every interest in ensuring that transactions are smooth, functioning, and that customers are satisfied.
So communicate via email or phone to be sure before placing an order.
Avoid, unless you are already well-informed, all foreign sites. Because for customer service, communicating with a company in France, or even Europe, is simpler, and you have rights that are easier to defend.
I hope this has helped!
Take care!