Clone the hard drive of an iMac - Page 2

Hello Francis

Is there no hope left?

Good evening,

It may be that despite everything, the CDs used are not good. A Mac cannot start, except sometimes on older models, from a CD supplied with another Mac. The original CD or a universal CD is required. Furthermore, a Mac cannot start, except in very rare cases, from a system version prior to the original version.
Are you sure these are the original CDs?

If these CDs are indeed original, it should be possible to install Mac OS on an external drive if the partition scheme is Apple Partition Map, and the drive is formatted correctly in Mac OS Extended (HFS+ is readable from Mac OS 8.1; before that, it was "simple" HFS, which is non-extended Mac OS).

I quickly reread the discussion, as I admit it has become a bit confusing, and I see you are talking about jumpers to set the drive in slave or master mode. When using an external boot drive on a port, necessarily of the Firewire type in your case, there is no concept of master or slave. There is no need to set any jumpers in your situation. Can you remind me of the origins of the tested drives? Have you tried with a ready-made external drive with an original Firewire port? Or only drives with unknown exact interfaces?

Do you know the exact history of this Mac? What is the exact model?

Can you make a very detailed summary of all your attempts?
--
Always indicate the exact model of your computer and the exact version of its OS!
Francis Sanspseudo - iMac Intel Core2Duo-Mac OS 10.8 + iMac-G5

Hello,
I will try to summarize everything so that it is clearer.
First of all, I never try to start the Mac via USB or FireWire.
Every time I made attempts, it was by putting a hard drive in the designated slot in my iMac.
That’s why I talk about jumper settings as master or slave because the startup is not the same.
I bought my iMac second-hand, and when I purchased it, its previous owner provided me with a small orange booklet (with an apple logo on it) containing clear CD pockets.
These pockets contain the orange CDs I'm talking about.
I haven’t tried any hard drive via FireWire because I don’t have one.
Everything I did was via USB, and that’s how I managed to format it to simple HFS, which turned into extended HFS during the copy and naming process.

My old hard drive still works but sometimes shows signs of fatigue.
Nevertheless, it allowed me to install Xclone to make copies.
I can still start my iMac from it.

Where can I find the exact model of my iMac...?

If you need to ask me more questions to get a clearer overall view, feel free :)

Hello,

For the exact type, go to the Apple menu / About this Mac, and you should find more accurate information. Or the serial number which will then allow you to identify this Mac through the Apple website.

There is also a very useful utility, MacTracker. You can get it here:
http://mactracker.ca/

You should make sure that the tested internal hard drives have the correct interface. If it's an older iMac, they must be ATA 1.

One important piece of information is that an ordinary Mac OS format (HFS) cannot be transformed into extended Mac OS (HFS+). A hard drive is formatted initially in one format and can only change through reformatting.
I believe that a Mac OS 9 startup disk must be formatted as non-journaled extended Mac OS and not in standard Mac OS. The journaled format was introduced with Mac OS 10.2 - I'm saying all this from memory. I haven't checked, but it raises the question of whether everything is okay across the board.

So, the logic should be:
-insert a hard drive into this iMac, without any jumper, after ensuring that its interface is okay, which should be ATA version 1 (to be checked on MacTracker depending on the exact model),
-repartition with the original CD (iMac started up from CD with the C key pressed), the installation of disk management tools should be automatic, but I can't remember
-format as extended Mac OS
-install from the original CD...

--
Always indicate the exact model of your computer and the exact version of its OS!
Francis Sanspseudo - iMac Intel Core2Duo-Mac OS 10.8 + iMac-G5

Hello,
I formatted in simple HFS because otherwise Xclone did not recognize the hard drive for copying onto it.
I tried without any jumper and by trying all possible positions of the jumper.
I have 2 reactions:
a ? that blinks alternately with the iMac logo and a floppy disk with a ?.

The largest hard drive tried is a 20 Go, so ATA 1 is necessary.

The CDs always result in the previously mentioned message (small bomb).

Is there a rider on the original hard drive? Each hard drive had a printed sketch on the body of the disk indicating the different positions of the riders.

Always indicate the exact model of your computer and the exact version of its OS!
Francis Sanspseudo - iMac Intel Core2Duo-Mac OS 10.8 + iMac-G5

Hello Francis,

It can't be a hardware problem since my iMac works perfectly with my old HDD.
Apart from, of course, the clicking noise that my original HDD makes from time to time...
I can't get the CDs to work even when disabling the extensions, so for now, I'm dropping that part.
I will focus more on cloning, as I must have missed a step.
Maybe the fact that I only formatted in standard HFS instead of extended?

If I format in HFS+ and copy all the content from my original HDD, that should maybe unlock everything.
Do you think that just cloning my original HDD to a standard HFS drive prevents it from booting?

I wish I had this Mac in my hands :)

I would also like you to be there to see what’s wrong with what I did ^^

Hello,

I remember the transition from HFS to HFS+, it was under Mac OS 8, 8.1 if I'm not mistaken. However, what I don't remember is whether under Mac OS 9 there was a requirement to boot from an HFS+ format. Although I think there was. There were versions 8.5, 8.6, and finally Mac OS 9. Apple developed HFS+ to solve problems in view of version 9 (for optimized disk space management).
Moreover, on my old iMac G3, the graphite 500DV SE, I installed Mac OS 10.2 which required an HFS+ extended and journaled format. And to install Mac OS 10.2 on my G3 which was under OS 9.1, I did not have to switch from HFS to HFS+. It was initially under HFS+. The very first iMac G3s were delivered with Mac OS 8.1, so they already had the HFS+ format. So, I would say, yes, the HFS+ format is probably mandatory.

Furthermore, earlier I said something incorrect, after checking, I just saw that the iMac G3s did not use a hard drive with ATA 1 interface, but already with ATA 3 interface. Even the first models. All of this will need to be re-verified... :)
--
Always indicate the exact model of your computer and the exact version of its OS!
Francis Sanspseudo - iMac Intel Core2Duo-Mac OS 10.8 + iMac-G5

To identify your iMac with certainty, you need to find its serial number. It is physically marked somewhere on the Mac, and you can find it by going to the Apple menu / About This Mac
With this serial number, you can fill in the Apple support page. In the designated area, you enter the serial number, and the site will return the information.

See also this page:
https://support.apple.com/fr-fr/HT1362

This utility:
http://mactracker.ca/

This site:
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/index-imac.html

Yes, I recommend reformatting the hard drive(s). Not just formatting, but repartitioning, and this should be done from your iMac. Each hard drive has at least one partition (a volume). Initially, a hard drive is actually just a mechanical assembly with a blank surface. (I say "a surface"; it's a way of speaking. There are actually several platters, each writable on both sides.)
The first thing to do to use a hard drive is to create at least one partition. A partition or a volume is the same thing. Each partitioning of a hard drive, even with only one partition, is done on a given scheme. Under Mac OS 9, partitioning utilities kept this aspect quiet, as Mac OS 9 only managed the Apple Partition Map type. But if the disks you are testing have been used on a PC, they may be partitioned using another scheme, such as MBR for example. Current Macs boot from disks partitioned with the GUID scheme.
And in fact, we do not know the history of your external hard drives.

It is then on this partition that formatting is applied. (HFS, HFS+ MS DOS, etc...)

--
Always indicate the exact model of your computer and the exact version of its OS!
Francis Sanspseudo - iMac Intel Core2Duo-Mac OS 10.8 + iMac-G5

An iMac model 406 at 500 MHz? And furthermore with a ROM 4.17f4....

Normally, an iMac model 406 is the very first iMac model.
Its processor should be clocked at 233 MHz, does not have FireWire ports, and was shipped with Mac OS 8.1. (so Mac OS 9 CDs should not be original)

Very strange then,

In fact, a model 406 corresponds to this:
https://support.apple.com/kb/SP136?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

I believe it's essential to find the serial number. (serial number marked on the case, or serial number in the Apple menu / About This Mac...)

--
Always indicate the exact model of your computer and the exact version of its OS!
Francis Sanspseudo - iMac Intel Core2Duo-Mac OS 10.8 + iMac-G5

Hello everyone :)

This is a Model Number M5521 EMC No1857
So according to your information, it's this one:
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_500_indigo.html
Everything matches, especially the colors of the plastic casing.

--
on the conquest of my beautiful IMAC G3 :)

MC5521.... ahhhh we're making progress, so it's not a 406... (where does that info come from?), but rather a model introduced in July 2001, delivered with Mac OS 9.1 or 9.2 depending on its exact release date.

Its hard drive must have an Ultra ATA interface.
This one:
https://support.apple.com/kb/SP109?locale=en_US

Its firmware needs to be updated to 4.1.9, see these pages:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT3036
https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1283?locale=en_US

Be sure to follow the procedure. It's not complicated, but it must be followed correctly. This update is not essential if the Mac remains on OS 9, but it is strongly recommended. However, it is required for upgrading to Mac OS 10, under penalty of severe hardware failure. It can go up to Mac OS 10.4.11, no more.
Mac OS 10.4 CDs are only available second-hand now.
This CD should look like this:
https://laptoping.com/wp-content/mac_os_x_tiger.jpg
Do not use gray CDs which are specific to a particular model of Mac.
This Mac will perform a bit better under Mac OS 10.3, whose universal CD looks like this:
https://library.stanford.edu/department/library-communications-and-development
You should prefer Mac OS 10.3 or 10.4 over version 10.2 which was actually the first usable OS 10 version.

--
Always indicate the exact model of your computer and the exact version of its OS!
Francis Sanspseudo - iMac Intel Core2Duo-Mac OS 10.8 + iMac-G5

Hello
if someone could tell me how to eject a CD on iMac... the keyboard key doesn't work anymore. I've spent over an hour on it. The installation CD won't start anymore even though I haven't changed anything.

PFFFF what a shame...
The small hole is quite visible but since I took this part of the plastic off...
That said, I tried with an ultra ATA hard drive and the same thing happened.

Hello,

I had the idea to check one of my hard drives with testdisk and here's what I discovered:
1 P partition map
2 P newworld
3 P Linux
4 P Swap

What conclusion do you draw from this?

--
to conquer my beautiful IMAC G3 :)

 IMac September 29, 2012 at 4:36 PM Hello, I had the idea to check one of my hard drives with testdisk and here is what I discovered: 1 P partition map 2 P newworld 3 P Linux 4 P Swap What conclusion can you draw from this? 

Good evening,

What we can say is that the partition scheme of this drive is probably not suitable for booting an iMac with a PowerPC processor like a G3. Its partition scheme is likely of the MBR type, whereas it should be of the "Apple Partition Map" type for this type of Mac. This goes back to my comments previously mentioned in the message above

Therefore, the partitioning needs to be redone, not just the formatting.

In Disk Utility under Mac OS 10, there is an option in the partition creation settings. Under Mac OS 9, it could be done with Hard Disk Tools (as far as I remember), or with third-party tools like MacTools, Annubis, etc...
I'm not absolutely certain that "Hard Disk Tools" from Mac OS 9 could recreate a valid partition scheme for OS 9, but I think it could. If I find my old tools, and they are now free of rights, I will put them on a server for you. Try with the tools you have at first.

--
Always indicate the exact model of your computer and the exact version of its OS!
Francis Sanspseudo - iMac Intel Core2Duo-Mac OS 10.8 + iMac-G5

After starting it up with this very strong sound at startup, one of the speakers with a blown diaphragm... great.
I'm making progress, but not in the right direction.
Does anyone know how to fix this?

--
On the way to conquering my beautiful IMAC G3 :)

Hello,
membrane repaired.
However, it still doesn't work.
I followed Francis's method, I'm baptizing everything correctly, everything seems okay when I explore the new hard drive, but we're at the same point as before.
I'm disappointed with Apple.
It seems impossible to create a clone.
Unless Francis finds another idea.
Francis, if you’re around...

Hello,

I am disappointed with Apple

Apple does not seem to be at fault... It is still a very old OS, and attempts to clone on disks that were not formatted correctly from the start.

I’m not sure exactly where the issue lies after all these attempts. (At least using CloneX 1.1 should have worked)

I don't know if, among everything that has been done, the simple method of installing Mac OS 9 from an original DVD has been tried... ? If not, that's the thing to attempt, then transfer the documents to keep. For this, it is necessary to find a valid second-hand CD that looks like this:
http://screencast.com/t/ORbY81YKg0vJ

if the original gray CD is missing.

Apart from this ultimate trial, for now, I see nothing else..

For your information, I remind you that if a hard drive is formatted in Mac OS from an old Mac OS 10 system, you must check in Disk Utility the option to install the OS 9 Managers.

--
Francis.
"An apple a day keeps the doctor away, as long as you aim well"-Winston Churchill

But what is the disk utility for, then? The "restore" function is there for that.