Dial phone not working
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Smilou_
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jeannets Posted messages 28373 Registration date Status Contributor Last intervention -
jeannets Posted messages 28373 Registration date Status Contributor Last intervention -
Hello, I recently acquired a vintage rotary phone that seems to date back to the 1950s. I tried to get it working, but without success. However, when using a similar rotary phone with the same connection to the box and different T to RJ11 adapters, I can hear the person on the other end and talk without any issues.
So I wanted to start looking into it myself. I checked the various connections in the phone, and nothing seemed to be unsoldered or broken. I then wondered if the button at the bottom of the phone (not present on the one that works) might play a role in its functioning?
Photos of the phone (with the button), the connections, and the wiring diagram:
So I wanted to start looking into it myself. I checked the various connections in the phone, and nothing seemed to be unsoldered or broken. I then wondered if the button at the bottom of the phone (not present on the one that works) might play a role in its functioning?
Photos of the phone (with the button), the connections, and the wiring diagram:
14 answers
FINALLY I managed to answer! :,))))
I wanted to listen to the ringtone once the phone was lifted, and this time it picked up! We can talk and hear each other, everything works (except hanging up :I but that's not essential)!
So if someone has a similar problem, I recommend thoroughly cleaning the card (don’t hesitate to apply some pressure and use the product several times), and then try to play a bit with the metal rods that are responsible for the handset.
Thank you for taking the time to help me :)
I wanted to listen to the ringtone once the phone was lifted, and this time it picked up! We can talk and hear each other, everything works (except hanging up :I but that's not essential)!
So if someone has a similar problem, I recommend thoroughly cleaning the card (don’t hesitate to apply some pressure and use the product several times), and then try to play a bit with the metal rods that are responsible for the handset.
Thank you for taking the time to help me :)
jeannets
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Hello,
This is a pulse-dialing phone, it was designed for old relay systems..!!
Whether online or not, currently, dialing is digitalized and fully electronic, using voice frequency... it can no longer work with modern systems... I would even add that it's prohibited on BOXes, as pulses cause current surges and reversals that damage circuits (causing failures)
Despite your claim that another one works, it’s probably by accident..
You need to understand that today's telephony has changed a lot since then.. It's a whole different ball game.
This is a pulse-dialing phone, it was designed for old relay systems..!!
Whether online or not, currently, dialing is digitalized and fully electronic, using voice frequency... it can no longer work with modern systems... I would even add that it's prohibited on BOXes, as pulses cause current surges and reversals that damage circuits (causing failures)
Despite your claim that another one works, it’s probably by accident..
You need to understand that today's telephony has changed a lot since then.. It's a whole different ball game.
Hello,
A rotary dial phone is perfectly capable of receiving a call and allowing for a conversation.
However, it is unable to make a call.
Indeed, the rotary dial is designed for pulse dialing, whereas nowadays, landline phones operate using tone dialing.
If this phone is not functioning in receiving calls... it means there is a fault (receiver or microphone not working, improper wiring of the handset or the line connection).
--
Very difficult to catch a black cat in a dark room.
Especially when it isn't there...
A rotary dial phone is perfectly capable of receiving a call and allowing for a conversation.
However, it is unable to make a call.
Indeed, the rotary dial is designed for pulse dialing, whereas nowadays, landline phones operate using tone dialing.
If this phone is not functioning in receiving calls... it means there is a fault (receiver or microphone not working, improper wiring of the handset or the line connection).
--
Very difficult to catch a black cat in a dark room.
Especially when it isn't there...
Just because the pulse dial system is no longer compatible, it is only used to test if the phone works; it requires incoming calls and not outgoing ones. That's why the second one works without any issues; I never touch the dial. However, the second one, while my mobile phone that calls has the long beeps indicating it should ring, gives no response when I pick up the receiver. As for the button, you can see that it is directly connected to the T-jack on the circuit (the 3 metal tabs at the bottom left of the photo are the button, and the first 5 connections at the top left are the T-jack. The next 3 are for the receiver).
What are the references (Brand and model) of this phone?
For me, the line should arrive at L1 and L2 (1 and 3 of the T connection)
The handset for the listening part should arrive at R and MR and the microphone between M and MR
As for the button, in my opinion, it is used to mute the microphone (terminals in blue in the capture below)?
However, in this diagram, where is the handset on-hook contact (terminals in red ??)
To check: button not pressed and handset on-hook:
the contact between terminal S and the 2 µF capacitor is indeed closed
the contact between terminal M and L2 is indeed open
Edit: My mistake...
the red and blue terminals all belong to the off-hook detection system
The push button is drawn at the top right and it does indeed mute the microphone.
For me, the line should arrive at L1 and L2 (1 and 3 of the T connection)
The handset for the listening part should arrive at R and MR and the microphone between M and MR
As for the button, in my opinion, it is used to mute the microphone (terminals in blue in the capture below)?
However, in this diagram, where is the handset on-hook contact (terminals in red ??)
To check: button not pressed and handset on-hook:
the contact between terminal S and the 2 µF capacitor is indeed closed
the contact between terminal M and L2 is indeed open
Edit: My mistake...
the red and blue terminals all belong to the off-hook detection system
The push button is drawn at the top right and it does indeed mute the microphone.
So the button wouldn't do anything to detach. Otherwise, I wondered if the failure might be due to the T-plug cable. So I opened the end, and I saw that the green wire (S) was loose and without the U-shaped end that allows it to be attached to a screw... Could this be the cause? Otherwise, I tried to take measurements with a multimeter on the Ohm meter (I'm not 100% sure that's how you check if a cable is in good shape, but anyway) and the Blue and Green wires, that is L1 and S, have a resistance of 3 Ohms and the Red and White wires have a resistance of about 0.5 Ohm. In short, I think if there is a fault somewhere, it's definitely there. I'm posting photos so you can tell me if there's a possible mistake elsewhere.
I'm reposting the colors just in case
I'm reposting the colors just in case
Only two wires are useful
they are on terminals 1 and 3 of the T-jack and should connect to terminals L1 and L2 of the phone
The other wires were used for an external ringer.
Speaking of the ringer, I couldn't locate, either in the photos or in the diagram, where it might be.
Was it a phone with an external ringer?
Have you tried calling with a mobile and picked up during the call, because if there's no ringing...
You didn't respond regarding the references for this device.
they are on terminals 1 and 3 of the T-jack and should connect to terminals L1 and L2 of the phone
The other wires were used for an external ringer.
Speaking of the ringer, I couldn't locate, either in the photos or in the diagram, where it might be.
Was it a phone with an external ringer?
Have you tried calling with a mobile and picked up during the call, because if there's no ringing...
You didn't respond regarding the references for this device.
So this phone doesn't have a default ringtone, I guess it's supposed to be external but I don't have one (I don't think it's necessary for it to work since the second phone that works doesn't have a ringtone). To test it, I called the landline from a mobile, and when I heard the dial tone, I picked up the receiver from the old phone but nothing happened on the mobile side... Whereas with the second phone it picks up fine and I can talk normally. As for the reference, I provided it below: it's a CIT phone probably from the 50s. I'm not really sure about the reference but on the bakelite casing it says GZ0215, with 58205 underneath. If that's not the right reference, it also says AX 1198 on the diagram.
So for the brand, it is a CIT. However, I'm not really sure about the reference, but there may be a reference on the bakelite piece (GZ0215, with 58205 marked underneath). Otherwise, there is also something marked at the top left of the diagram in the phone: AX 1198). As for the year, it is likely from the 1950s.
jeannets
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These phones had the option for an external ringtone... Provided that a jumper was placed in the terminal... If that’s the case, it explains why the phone isn’t ringing.
There’s also the fact that these ringtones do consume power... A BOX might not have enough power for that.
There’s also the fact that these ringtones do consume power... A BOX might not have enough power for that.
Yes, the phone doesn't ring. And yes, I don't think the RJ11 phone output from my box provides 50V. But it's simply enough to lift the handset when we hear the beeps of the mobile phone calling. I know it works since the second phone that works also doesn't ring.
jeannets
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The ringtone of the mobile does not prove that the other end of the line is ringing...
It is a witness that is not an enslavement.
It is a witness that is not an enslavement.
jeannets
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That's the nature of breakdowns...!!! What works for one doesn't work for the other.
Your reasoning lacks logic for a repair... or one of the two is different in a way that we don't know.
Your reasoning lacks logic for a repair... or one of the two is different in a way that we don't know.
I can't find a special wiring diagram for this CIT which dates from '50 or '58
I think, as mentioned above, that we need to check the contacts on the "hung up" system...
because if hung up the line remains cut then ... nothing can work.
@Jeannets a box is perfectly capable of providing the necessary power to operate a telephone even an old one (in reception).
The phone output of the box is equivalent to the T-connector where phones were plugged in before total unbundling.
--
Very difficult to catch a black cat in a dark room.
Especially when it's not there...
I think, as mentioned above, that we need to check the contacts on the "hung up" system...
because if hung up the line remains cut then ... nothing can work.
@Jeannets a box is perfectly capable of providing the necessary power to operate a telephone even an old one (in reception).
The phone output of the box is equivalent to the T-connector where phones were plugged in before total unbundling.
--
Very difficult to catch a black cat in a dark room.
Especially when it's not there...
jeannets
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Yes, me too, I'm thinking of oxidized contacts; moreover, we can clearly see the oxidation marks on the terminals and the screws, for example. Maybe also in the receiver...? Or the earpiece that is cutting out...?
Thanks @baladur for the clarification on the output current of the BOXes; let's just say I thought it was more "Lite".
Thanks @baladur for the clarification on the output current of the BOXes; let's just say I thought it was more "Lite".
So I'd like to know exactly where I should test ;) I'm not really sure where these hanging phone contacts are.
So while waiting for your responses (thanks by the way :) ), I sprayed the WD 40 special electronics on the board to clean it and improve the various connections, as @jeannets mentioned. Then I checked the different connections, and I didn't notice anything unusual (except for the big capacitor whose reliability I can't measure, but electricity passes with a bit of resistance)... So I started to think that the problem was mechanical. I removed the bar that supports the phone and made contact between the metal rods with my fingers. And there the phone started to vibrate! At first, I thought I had avoided a big shock, but in fact it was the ring of the phones from that time, which is much deeper because, contrary to what I thought, there is indeed a ring inside but without a little bell so the sound is low. However, even though the little bell works, there is still the impossibility to pick up the phone :,(... Even though the phone rings!
Edit: I forgot to mention, but when I pick up, the call doesn't start but the ringing stops. So the phone understands that we've picked up but not the mobile??
Edit: I forgot to mention, but when I pick up, the call doesn't start but the ringing stops. So the phone understands that we've picked up but not the mobile??
jeannets
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OK, it's wonderful...!