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Defective sector zones on a cylinder

RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   -  
fabul Posted messages 42284 Registration date   Status Moderator Last intervention   -

Hello,
I have a 1TB hard drive of which only one cylinder is detected as defective.
CrystalDiskInfo shows overall health status as: Caution
As a precaution I have backed up all my important files/folders

If Windows CHKDSK maybe resolved the problem, CrystalDiskInfo still shows Caution

Cloning this hard drive would avoid the physically defective sectors but would not replace the affected files.

What would be nice is to know which file(s) are located on the defective cylinder to better understand the consequences.

Is there a software that can show which files are impacted when sectors fail, since cylinder or cluster isn’t very meaningful for the files involved?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

8 answers

  1.
    fabul Posted messages 42284 Registration date   Status Moderator Last intervention   6 092
     

    Hello,

    Copy all the contents of the disk to another disk that can hold everything with Supercopier 2.2 beta (which, once installed, replaces Windows' copy system)

    When a file cannot be read, it will ask you whether you want to retry, or keep retrying, or skip, or always skip, etc.

    So you skip it if you find one that's damaged, hoping the rest of the copy will go through fine.

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  2. flo88 Posted messages 28532 Registration date   Status Contributor Last intervention   Ambassador 5 186
     

    Hi

    The term "cylinder" bothers me because it is simply a representation of the stacking of the platters, so in fact it is the hard disk in its entirety, thus recovering a defective sector from this information is impossible.

    We might also need to look at the tools from the drive manufacturers; they are capable of recovering the sectors, even though the repair will be performed transparently for the user, so the exact addressing will not be known either. SeaTools (by Seagate) or Data Lifeguard Diagnostic (by Western Digital)

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    1. spiralio Posted messages 5352 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   333
       

      Good evening,

      "Edit: maybe HDDScan if it is still compatible with W11"

      It apparently isn't:

      Requirements:

      • Windows XP SP3, Windows Server 2003 (with restrictions), Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10.
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      1. brucine Posted messages 25275 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   4 187 > spiralio Posted messages 5352 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention  
         

        Good evening,

        Don’t prove anything until we’ve tried; many software publishers have not updated or guaranteed Windows 11 compatibility, which does not mean it doesn’t exist, as most software compatible with Windows 10 is also compatible with Windows 11.

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      2. spiralio Posted messages 5352 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   333 > brucine Posted messages 25275 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention  
         

        Good evening,

        It's just.

        In case of doubt, I wrote: "He does not seem to be apparently.'

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      3. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1 > spiralio Posted messages 5352 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention  
         

        I am on Windows 10
        Seatools (since the hard drive is a Seagate) does not provide me with any more information, except that the S.M.A.R.T is not good.

        If CHKDSK has ruled out defective sectors, that’s good, but despite that the S.M.A.R.T remains not good.
        So monitoring and a reinstallation of Windows on another hard drive should be planned since it isn’t possible to know exactly which files are affected

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  3. blux Posted messages 2068 Registration date   Status Moderator Last intervention   3 456
     

    Hi,

    A cylinder detected as defective is not necessarily a sign that the data is lost.

    Most of the time, what happens is what is called a 'relocation': the system retrieves the data present at that location to place it elsewhere and then marks this area as unusable in the future.

    Disk analysis software relies on the disk's 'smart' information: read error rate for this cylinder, for example, to indicate that it is in the process of degenerating.

    And given the complexity of physical storage, it is illusory to think one can precisely determine what is stored at a given location.

    See you, blux           "The idiots, they dare everything.
    That's how you recognize them"

    1
    1. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1
       

      If the data has been moved elsewhere, it can keep working like that until it degrades further.
      If they are data (documents, files, music, images, video), I know where to find them, and by backing them up on another hard drive I will see if their copy blocks.
      If they are data useful for Windows to function, then on the other hand nothing can be anticipated; crashes ahead.

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      1. blux Posted messages 2068 Registration date   Status Moderator Last intervention   3 456 > RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention  
         

        If the data has been moved elsewhere, it can continue to work this way until it degrades further.

        That is the operating principle of relocation.

        Otherwise, you say that the smart isn’t good, what values are anomalous? Don’t settle for just a simple orange or red indicator...

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      2. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1 > blux Posted messages 2068 Registration date   Status Moderator Last intervention  
         

        No % for health status since this is not an SSD hard drive
        Lines C5 and C6 show alerts in CrystalDiskInfo, but 05 is normal for now
        I monitor constantly with CrystalDiskInfo in the background

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  4. brucine Posted messages 25275 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   4 187
     

    Hello,

    The fsutil volume querycluster command can determine which file occupies a specifically specified cluster, but not the inverse, which is not possible except perhaps with professional software at prices beyond reach.

    CHKDSK resolves nothing; it simply skips the sectors it could not repair.

    The only option is to proceed by difference between a recently assumed healthy backup (before the defect) and the content of the disk.

    It is not guaranteed that not only a cloning will copy the contents of the defective areas but also that it will not refuse to be performed on such a disk, in which case one can only reinstall Windows and the programs on a new disk and then copy only the data from the old disk that can be recovered.

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  6. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1
     

    Hello brucine
    thanks for these explanations

    CHKDSK only allows skipping non-repairable sectors, it does not help to find what is impacted and even less to recreate it elsewhere (even if it is a file that Windows uses, knows about and could therefore recreate on its own)

    To know what is impacted, it would be necessary to compare with a healthy backup (I don't have one)

    Cloning will not recreate what is defective and could even lock the computer during the process

    I will test fsutil, but the only information I have is the defective cylinder number: 30 559
    According to the internet you must divide by 8 to get the corresponding defective cluster, i.e. 3819

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  7. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1
     

    Hello fabulous

    thanks as well
    OK I will test Supercopier, if it indicates the (or the) file(s) that pose a problem, that's what I'm looking to know.
    Hoping there isn't too large a number of affected files

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    1. brucine Posted messages 25275 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   4 187
       
      Perhaps not XCOPY but ROBOCOPY built into Windows does the job since it logs the files that failed to copy. Of course, in a first step you should not perform a real copy but a virtual one using the /L switch; you can keep the output on screen but unusable for the entire contents of a drive or redirect to a file. >>My pathMyLog.txt https://ss64.com/nt/robocopy.html https://fr.ittrip.xyz/windows/commandprompt-windows/robocopy-erreur-continuer
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    2. fabul Posted messages 42284 Registration date   Status Moderator Last intervention   6 092 > brucine Posted messages 25275 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention  
       
      Hi, I forgot to mention that Supercopier creates a copy error log on demand.
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    3. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1 > fabul Posted messages 42284 Registration date   Status Moderator Last intervention  
       

      I tested Supercopier, the problem is that I ask it to copy from the hard drive where Windows is, so there are many in-use files (not copyable) and consequently you have to choose “Skip” too often
      It would be necessary to remove the hard drive and connect it to another PC to avoid in-use files.

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    4. fabul Posted messages 42284 Registration date   Status Moderator Last intervention   6 092 > RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention  
       

      You can rely on personal files in the subfolders of in

      C:\Users\You (Almost everything is there)

      As well as your browser favorites.

      And reinstall Windows on a new disk.

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    5. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1 > fabul Posted messages 42284 Registration date   Status Moderator Last intervention  
       

      Yes, these are the files (plus the list of programs) that I back up before a Windows reinstallation.

      No problem on that side, I’ve already backed them up and I update every time there’s something new.

      It’s just that it tires me to do a new Windows installation; the longest part isn’t Windows installation itself but mainly redo my preferred settings and reinstall all my programs.

      But it will have to be done, and it’s an opportunity to see if, by installing a SSD from now on, the risk of bad sectors is lower.

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  8. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1
     

    The only information I have for now is from DiskGenius which tells me:
    Bad sectors zone
    Cylinder: 30559
    16065 sectors
    Data error (cyclic redundancy check).

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    1. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1
       

      And for cluster 3819 I have this response given by: fsutil volume querycluster C: 3819

      Cluster 0x0000000000000eeb used by ----D \Windows\Fonts\isocteui.ttf::$DATA

      Unthinkable that a S.M.A.R.T. would not be good just because of that.

      As blux says: "And given the complexity of physical storage, it is illusory to think you can precisely determine what is stored at a given location"

      -1
      1. flo88 Posted messages 28532 Registration date   Status Contributor Last intervention   5 186 > RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention  
         

        SMART codings work with percentages and tolerances for each item, and more or less importance depending on the items.

        As long as the tolerance is not reached, the disk remains "good". When an item exceeds the tolerance, it goes to "caution".

        But in any case, there is no point in trying to figure out the why and how; the disk is dying, that’s for sure. It must be replaced while there is still time.

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      2. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1 > flo88 Posted messages 28532 Registration date   Status Contributor Last intervention  
         

        I am ready for a reinstallation because I have backed up the User folder, bookmarks, and listed the installed programs.

        My initial question was simply to know if we could see which known file types (Documents, Images, Music, ... ) were affected in order to back them up to another disk (delete them from the faulty disk and then put them back so they are relocated elsewhere) but if they are files that Windows uses, it’s a lost cause (impossible to know which files are affected)

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  9. RVT02 Posted messages 56 Registration date   Status Member Last intervention   1
     

    Thanks to everyone for your help and comments

    See you soon perhaps from a Windows installed on an SSD drive, or still in persistence with my faulty HDD.

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