Email rejection to Gmail addresses

Question

Good evening,

I would like to submit to the community the problem I have been experiencing for about fifteen days with TB, regarding sending messages to Gmail recipients, and only them (for 48 hours, the problem also affected my Hotmail correspondents, but it resolved itself afterwards, without any intervention on my part).

I am using TB (version 78.12.0) with two addresses: my professional address (academic), and my personal address (on wanadoo.fr). No problems with my professional address, from which I can send messages to Gmail recipients without any issues. However, there is a blockage with my personal address, which has been happening for two weeks now (I saw that TB had an update on July 19th: is there a link?). I received non-delivery messages, either immediately, after 48 hours, or... 8 days later for one of them. With the error message: 421-4.7.0 This message does not have authentication information or fails to pass.

Here are my server settings (for my wanadoo address).
Orange (SMTP server)
Server name: smtp.orange.fr
Port: 587
Username: ***@***
Authentication method: Password, insecure transmission
Connection security: None

I tried changing some of these settings (unsuccessfully):
- the server (Orange also offers smtp.wanadoo.fr)
- the port: 465.

I called Orange for the first time, who told me that the problem was from Gmail. Then a second time today, where they told me it was TB (after some tests that seemed to prove that indeed, it would be the source of the problem; I can indeed send emails to Gmail recipients without any issues when I send them directly from my Orange account). I also called the IT store where I am a customer (Ordisys, in Nîmes), who remains on the Gmail hypothesis, and adds that another client recently reported the same problem.

Can I ask for your help with this problem, which occurred unexpectedly and is bothering me a bit, I must admit? Thank you very much in advance.

Redbart · Answer

Hello
be careful, the Orange messaging service is often hacked, strengthen your passwords
this also applies to other passwords

following the functioning anomalies encountered with the Orange POP server, I switched to IMAP still on Thunderbird

imap.orange.fr
port: 993
user: complete Orange email address
security: ssl/tls
authentication: normal password

smtp.orange.fr
port: 465
security: ssl/tls
authentication: normal password
user: complete Orange email address

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Take the time to comment!
A thank you is appreciated.
Mark as resolved if your problem has been solved. I address everyone informally.

SerBal22 · Answer

Hello @Antigone,

This issue has nothing to do with any Thunderbird update and everything lies in the error the message is announcing to you:
"This message does not have authentication information or fails to pass." translates exactly to "Ce message n'a pas d'information d'authentification ou son passage a échoué",
and this is due to your outgoing server settings (which remain the same whether you use POP or IMAP).

A setting is a coherent whole and is not just a simple port number. The settings are interdependent on each other, and a port 587 or 465, which are the ports used by an authenticated setting (i.e. one where the sender has been verified by the outgoing server), must be, uh... AUTHENTICATED!

You authenticate your sending by configuring the outgoing server in the software by providing your full email address in the "username" field and specifying an authentication method, namely Regular password and Connection Security = SSL/TLS.

Like this:

This allows you to overcome the anti-spam barriers set by many ISPs as well as to send emails from lines other than those of your ISP.

Antigone · Answer

Hem... I have 4 email addresses, 3 of which are strictly used for professional purposes (one of these 3 dedicated addresses depends on the university server). For my precious words (humor?), there's also the ENT. In total, quite a few archiving places, really (not to mention the well-organized minds that are supposed to "archive" too!).

I tested POP 25, sent emails to my two Gmail addresses using Outlook: still doesn’t work. From this, I deduce that TB is not the source of the problem.

I can reach my Gmail recipients when I go directly through the Orange online mail service. From this, I deduce that the "link" between Orange and Gmail doesn't seem to be the issue (?).

Too much deduction kills deduction, I throw in the towel. For now.

Thanks again and always!

Antigone · Answer

I disabled the firewall and the antivirus for a few tests, but it didn't change anything. I'm using Kaspersky Total Security: I can't do it tomorrow, but on Thursday, I will contact the technical service (which has been fairly correct and efficient, from experience) and see with them if the problem could be related to a possible update, or a change in security level somewhere.
What bothers me is that this kind of bug is not new: on the Orange community forum, there are a few discussion threads about the same issue (specifically for Gmail), but they are relatively old messages, and there is never really any answer given. Moreover, a client from my computer shop apparently encountered the same problem last week. I asked to be able to contact him, but it doesn't seem to be the shop's usual practice.
Conclusion: Only battles that are not fought are lost in advance!
Good evening to you, and thank you again for the effort you are making to try to untangle this imbroglio.

SerBal22 · Answer

Hello @Antigone,

There are indeed quite a few articles on this subject on the Orange forum (only 78!):
https://communaute.orange.fr/t5/forums/searchpage/tab/message?advanced=false&allow_punctuation=false&filter=location&location=forum-board%3Amail&q=envoi+vers+gmail

...including this one, quite recent:
https://communaute.orange.fr/t5/mon-mail-Orange/Multiples-messages-de-la-messagerie-Orange-de-mails-non-d%C3%A9livr%C3%A9s/m-p/2561133/highlight/true#M219543

It is unnecessary to change the port because the default settings for an account in Thunderbird are the ones I indicated to you, which are correct for authenticated sending.

You say "No issues with my professional address, from which I can send messages to Gmail recipients without any problem. However, it gets stuck from my personal address", which suggests that it is your personal address that has a problem, or the type or number of emails sent from your personal address that could cause them to be considered as spam.
Have you ever received a non-delivery message in return?
If so, please provide us with a complete copy

@brucine:
Testing with port 25 is unnecessary because this port, which dates back to Methuselah (1982), is increasingly rejected by various ISPs as it is often used for spamming.
Thunderbird's own help states this in this article:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/cannot-send-messages
"Many ISPs block outgoing email on port 25. You may have to switch to another port (e.g. 587 or 465). Contact your ISP's support to see if they are blocking your outgoing email port."

Moreover, why mix POP, which is a receiving protocol, with port 25, which is assigned to the SMTP protocol, the sending protocol?

The choice between POP or IMAP for receiving is entirely independent of the sending protocol used and depends on the choice of the type of mail management on the server, with or without synchronization with the software.

SerBal22 · Answer

@Antigone,

If you type "This message does not have authentication information or fails to pass" into a search engine, you'll find a bunch of articles on the subject:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=This+message+does+not+have+authentication+information+or+fails+to+pass

Including this one:

https://hoststud.com/resources/resolved-error-550-5-7-1-this-message-does-not-have-authentication-information-or-fails-to-pass.476/

All this is due to the fact that Gmail is particularly picky and easily considers received emails as spam.
The fact that your personal address is wanadoo does not help, as this domain name is fading away and it has been more than 10 years since Orange asked its users to switch their email address to @orange.fr.
The wanadoo domain is primarily used by spammers these days, and hackers are aware of this, especially since every @orange address has an automatic alias with same-root@wanadoo to ensure migration.
Nowadays, it is impossible to create a new address in @wanadoo.

To migrate your email address to @orange.fr, see this link:
https://assistance.orange.fr/assistance-commerciale/l-identification/gerer-vos-comptes-orange/modifier-votre-adresse-mail-orange_72246-73099
It will continue to receive emails sent to its old form, so you don't need to inform your correspondents who will update it "as they go".

Also, see this recent post:
https://communaute.orange.fr/t5/mon-mail-Orange/probleme-envoi-mail-depuis-Wanadoo-vers-gmail-depuis-une-semaine/m-p/2550564

Redbart · Answer

re:
Yesterday, it was impossible to send an email with my Orange addresses on Thunderbird
Just now, new test; sending and receiving immediately!

The same settings as in msg 1

So it's clearly Orange that is to blame

--
Take the time to comment!
A thank you is always appreciated.
Mark it as resolved if your problem has been solved. I use the informal 'tu' with everyone.

Antigone · Answer

Good evening @RedBart.
Good evening @Brucine.

Technical service from Orange on the phone this morning. For me, the problem persists, but apparently I'm not the only one (the technician himself has his Gmail addresses blocked!).

I mentioned the existence of an internal circular from Orange to its agents acknowledging the problem (link to a thread on the Orange community provided by @SerBal22) and asking that no escalation be made, all coming from... Google.

According to the technician (who read the circular in full to me), this is a new anti-spam protocol from Gmail, which rejects both Orange and Wanadoo addresses (well, those of the only cursed ones, apparently). The only solution would be... to bypass the problem, in other words, to give up sending Wanadoo to Gmail and to use a "backup" address (for example, and preferably, Gmail to Gmail). Basically, the technician assumes that David's fight against Goliath is a lost cause (for the Davids, of course).

This is, of course, moderately satisfactory, and according to this technician, changing my Wanadoo address to Orange will not change anything, since the problem will persist, to varying degrees of randomness (for me, it's 99-100% of my messages that are rejected, for others it's less, etc.).

So, by the grace of Mr. Bricolage, I will open a "new account" on Thunderbird with my Gmail address, which will allow me to have my three email accounts available in parallel when I open TB. I just need to get used to juggling between these accounts, which I already do, to be honest, when I switch between my personal Wanadoo email and my professional email (***@***). But to hell with greed: three accounts "at the same time," as they say, that promotes digital biodiversity.

Once again, a big thank you to both of you for your valuable help over the past three days, and your educational effort to address my level 1 questions.

If by chance you learn that Goliath has finally yielded to David's wishes (this is, after all, the official version of the story), please keep me informed!

Have a good end of the evening.

Esther · Answer

I have the same problem with Gmail as the recipient of messages sent from: wanadoo
Sometimes also with hotmail
The problem seems to come from Gmail: at least that's what the Orange customer service says.
What to do?

lndiasong · Answer

I managed to get WLM and now Thunderbird working with the SMTP as proposed by Serbal22, with WLM having the same settings as the incoming server, but for the incoming server, I don't have a secure connection, just password authentication (plain text).
I struggled for a long time before finding the solution, I believe on an Orange forum as well.

Email rejection to Gmail addresses

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